Discouraging newbies

[CharlesM]

A simple version of it could be a gluttony system called "Reinforce" where you could add for example dross to the wall to level it up, and higher purity dross would give more.

But would you need to apply this to each section of your wall or would the total amount of dross neccessary be divided by the total amount of walls connected? And i'm not sure how easy it would be to make each wall a separate entity than another wall.

Another system which could work could be "overloading" your claim stone with silver. There could be teirs of silver amounts which increase the defense of claimed objects. So for example 20% extra silver in your claimstone from full would give your base 10% more defense, then 40% more silver would be 20% more defense and so on.

[Attelso]

A simple version of it could be a gluttony system called "Reinforce" where you could add for example dross to the wall to level it up, and higher purity dross would give more.

But would you need to apply this to each section of your wall or would the total amount of dross neccessary be divided by the total amount of walls connected? And i'm not sure how easy it would be to make each wall a separate entity than another wall.

Another system which could work could be "overloading" your claim stone with silver. There could be teirs of silver amounts which increase the defense of claimed objects. So for example 20% extra silver in your claimstone from full would give your base 10% more defense, then 40% more silver would be 20% more defense and so on.

You would do it on every wall section, you can always adjust the bonus to balance it compared to biles.

[CharlesM]

You would do it on every wall section, you can always adjust the bonus to balance it compared to biles.

If it is every wall section then it would be impossible to reinforce middle walls if you layered them with no spaces (as a lot of people do). I'm okay with it being every wall section as long as the upgrade is substantial. I think having an upgradeable/furthr loadable claim stone would be better though because for smaller claims the amount of silver necessary would be less, and for larger claims (with many people) it would cost more silver which would stimulate the game economy.

[logan]

i thought this thread was pretty interesting, and kind of funny because op made his first and last post in this thread, like the title it appears he got discouraged and left, yet the game and thread persist.

there was no need immeriel to alert the chief, and send in the derail squad.

although dec 26 isn't that far off in the past, it's pre wall buff/brazier buff, so i though it might be interesting to try and spur interest in what started to be a fairly insightfull discussion on the topic, now that defenses have been ramped up alot of the old arguments are now moot.

for those with little reading comprehension this wasn't an ideas an innovation thread, there was some good early insight from a few posters, was hoping they would pop back in.

[TeckXKnight]

i thought this thread was pretty interesting, and kind of funny because op made his first and last post in this thread, like the title it appears he got discouraged and left, yet the game and thread persist.

there was no need immeriel to alert the chief, and send in the derail squad.

although dec 26 isn't that far off in the past, it's pre wall buff/brazier buff, so i though it might be interesting to try and spur interest in what started to be a fairly insightfull discussion on the topic, now that defenses have been ramped up alot of the old arguments are now moot.

for those with little reading comprehension this wasn't an ideas an innovation thread, there was some good early insight from a few posters, was hoping they would pop back in.

I wouldn't consider answering concerns and organic discussion of mechanics and ways they affect players to be a derail. I also have no idea why you think the chief or his derail squad are deeply involved in this thread. You are a strange fellow. =)

As for why raiders have an advantage, the answer is that they have invested more time and energy into the game. A more developed and experienced player will always trump a newbie. Resources are more than just what you have in your inventory as well. The land you settle on and the foragables you pick are valuable so even having you around impedes on resources that other players need. There are also generally more of them. A group of players is going to beat a hermit. The goal of the game shouldn't be to nerf organized groups and experienced players to hell and back. So then you're back to the question: how do you prevent newbies from being discouraged?

In my opinion it should be possible to grow and subsist as a nomadic forager for longer. Settling down is a huge investment of resources and time. It is also the biggest indicator that a raider should hit a location. The issue being that there is such a huge emphasis on settling and investing in a location the moment you start the game that new players have no time to adapt to the world or prepare themselves before they gamble everything. Being nomadic and retaining fewer possessions as you develop your character permits you to grow and become attached to the world without venturing as large of a time investment. Unfortunately, if you do this then you'll severely stunt your growth. Foraged inspirations and foods are terrible compared to what you can make.

[logan]

[quote="TeckXKnight"]
As for why raiders have an advantage, the answer is that they have invested more time and energy into the game. A more developed and experienced player will always trump a newbie.[quote]

agreed
one of my earlier points was simply that in most games newbies although vulnerable have some form of choices when they enter the game, if a server is completely dominated by a faction newbies have very little chance.
[quote="TeckXKnight"]
Resources are more than just what you have in your inventory as well. The land you settle on and the foragables you pick are valuable so even having you around impedes on resources that other players need. There are also generally more of them. A group of players is going to beat a hermit. The goal of the game shouldn't be to nerf organized groups and experienced players to hell and back. So then you're back to the question:

how do you prevent newbies from being discouraged? [quote]

right and my answer to that was not to nerf factions, but only indicating that if 1 faction becomes overlly dominate its a game mechanic flaw, my answer to the question was simply that had more different factions been around new players who quit may have found a more reasonble means to survive the initial steps. and the reason i provided for lack of other factions was that game mechanics were too favorable to raiding

the question i was asking was how would salem be different today had they made the wall buff first and purity second.

[quote="TeckXKnight"]
In my opinion it should be possible to grow and subsist as a nomadic forager for longer. Settling down is a huge investment of resources and time. It is also the biggest indicator that a raider should hit a location. The issue being that there is such a huge emphasis on settling and investing in a location the moment you start the game that new players have no time to adapt to the world or prepare themselves before they gamble everything. Being nomadic and retaining fewer possessions as you develop your character permits you to grow and become attached to the world without venturing as large of a time investment. Unfortunately, if you do this then you'll severely stunt your growth. Foraged inspirations and foods are terrible compared to what you can make.[quote]

you've indicated in the past that you yourself play this way which i find interesting and agree that thay type of scenario where a new pilgrim either has to wounder or take a job (see lime slave thread) for some time before getting established.

[Mereni]

I do think it would be encouraging to newbies if we could tell them 'find a group to play with' rather than 'watch out people will kill you'. But the mechanics of this game and the way the defenses are set up discourages trust. If you didn't come here with a friend, it's a big deal to try to find one.

I met someone in Boston the other day. He seemed friendly enough and we chatted a few minutes. Eventually he wanted to know where my claim is, which I refused to tell. He asked me to come visit his and when I declined he asked to visit my claim. Now, maybe he was just looking for some friends... or maybe not.

The way things are now, if I had just gone to see his claim and been given permissions, gone into the walls... he could have taken permission away and I would have been trapped. No key to open a locked gate, no way to move without triggering brazier fire, and no logging off. I would have been stuck to be murdered at his convenience.

Alternatively, if I had let him visit my claim, he would then know where I am and might have a strong raider character to come kill me or break/steal my stuff. Just because I know the tribe will get revenge for me (or pay a ranger and hope they can be trusted, for people on other servers) doesn't mean I want to invite that kind of trouble. And if he didn't do anything right away, that doesn't me he won't rob me blind in a few days when he has a key and permissions and I'm logged off.

What I'm saying is, right now, the way the game is set up, it discourages meeting people in the game, and working with them, and living on the same claim. The game encourages playing alone, doing everything alone, and hoping to never even see your neighbors. Even having a village claim with separate personal claims for each person living there isn't that much better and requires a great deal of possibly misplaced trust.

I wish I knew what to change to fix it. It would be nice to just meet someone out in the wilderness in invite them in for a cup of tea (why don't we have any drinks?). But for now, I think the nature of the game is going to discourage people. You learn the hard way to be very careful who you trust, or you quit because you can't handle it.

[Mereni]

In my opinion it should be possible to grow and subsist as a nomadic forager for longer.

I spent a few weeks as a nomad between leaving the reservation to look for a home and actually finding a good spot to make one. Along the way, I managed to learn most of the skills I would need to set myself up in a basic claim. I found enough dried snake skins in stumps and assembled enough savage charms to have spending money for a modest newbie claim. I even found enough foragables to get my humors up to the high teens. And that's not bad for a beginning hermit, at least I did okay with those numbers.

I would still be okay with the upper 20s I pushed to after establishing myself if not for the recent defense changes. Because of that, and the need to knock down a couple of stone hedges, I'm forced to spend silver on high quality foods to gluttony up.

But I really think nomadic foraging with small base camps can work for a long time.

[kalacia]

I have played in a few villages, and as a hermit in haven. I agree that getting a group/trust in game is difficult... I have only ever met a group in game that didnt want to greif, pillage or murder (again this is from haven, but the risks are the same imo) I used the forums to find the people i have played with and the groups have been fine.

Although, newbies and noobs alike... maynot use the forums, or have the ability to tell between a serious post and a troll post that will get them killed.