Game Development: Welcome, Have a Seat

[jorb]

Actually, as i already explained, it made it worse than before

So you are telling me with a straight face that it would be easier to defend against raiders/play as a small time player if we removed the timing on raids? I do not believe that for a second.

[MagicManICT]

It'd be nice to know what, if anything, these people that leave after getting raided had done to protect their base. Did they just have a simple fence and no braziers or torchposts, or did they try to build up serious defenses that just weren't enough?

[darnokpl]

Actually, as i already explained, it made it worse than before

So you are telling me with a straight face that it would be easier to defend against raiders/play as a small time player if we removed the timing on raids? I do not believe that for a second.

Jeff is half wrong it is easier to hide valuable items, but still defence vs 15-20 guys with 200-300 stats is still impossible all we can do is run!
But I have no idea how it can be any better, it is community game and roa community does nothing to protect it self, there are small camps that can not protect their walls
I personally blame spying and zero-trust for this in HnH (or in RL) people would create alliance or one large town to defend their goods, but here spies are to strong they can just open gates and it is game over.

[Potjeh]

So what's the problem?

Well, for starters, it's really lame that a hermit *has* to build a town bell. Yeah, I understand that personal claims offering invulnerability for 24 (or was it 18?) hours made vault-cycling trivial. But the problem hasn't been removed by axing A Stern Warning, because serious raiders will have sufficient funds to build a dozen town bells for their vaults and cycle those.

But the real problem is the total asymmetry between the attacker and the defender when it comes to resource investment. As long as levelling settlements doesn't cost anything, the game will be too hostile for non-poopsockers to stick around. Fixing this problem would also be the right way to fix the timing issue, ie the speed of destruction should be proportional to resource investment ratio between the attacker and defender. The current invulnerability timer is too prone to abuse because it doesn't take into account the amount of defences.

[Yes]

So what's the problem?

Well, for starters, it's really lame that a hermit *has* to build a town bell. Yeah, I understand that personal claims offering invulnerability for 24 (or was it 18?) hours made vault-cycling trivial. But the problem hasn't been removed by axing A Stern Warning, because serious raiders will have sufficient funds to build a dozen town bells for their vaults and cycle those.

But the real problem is the total asymmetry between the attacker and the defender when it comes to resource investment. As long as levelling settlements doesn't cost anything, the game will be too hostile for non-poopsockers to stick around. Fixing this problem would also be the right way to fix the timing issue, ie the speed of destruction should be proportional to resource investment ratio between the attacker and defender. The current invulnerability timer is too prone to abuse because it doesn't take into account the amount of defences.

Hermit spent 10 hours in game to build something, gather, level up proficiencies and learn some skills.
Raiders spent 100 hours to get Cain and Abel skill and 150 humours.
Who should win in a conflict between them?

Why would a fittest char not win?
Why won't a hermit join a town?
Why would people with chars with 300+ humours attack a newbie hermit?
Why would a hermit not understand atm he can lose everything if he doesn't keep it in a safe enough place?

[Potjeh]

Thanks for the strawman, but I don't really need it at my S&C level.

[darnokpl]

Hermit spent 10 hours in game to build something, gather, level up proficiencies and learn some skills.
Raiders spent 100 hours to get Cain and Abel skill and 150 humours.
Who should win in a conflict between them?

Why would a fittest char not win?
Why won't a hermit join a town?
Why would people with chars with 300+ humours attack a newbie hermit?
Why would a hermit not understand atm he can lose everything if he doesn't keep it in a safe enough place?

Of course that guy who spent 100 hours should win, but if you haven't noticed PEOPLE ARE NOT JOINING TO TOWNS!!!
Instead of they are making small, hard to find, camps, that is stupid, but this is how current siege mechanic is working, you can't win, so you run.
Why people are not making larger communities, except Russians of course?

[MagicManICT]

Because you get situations like on Plymouth where you have half the server population ratting on the other half so they won't get ran over by the (currently) largest faction on the server.

[JeffGV]

Actually, as i already explained, it made it worse than before

So you are telling me with a straight face that it would be easier to defend against raiders/play as a small time player if we removed the timing on raids? I do not believe that for a second.

As far as defense go, it doesn't change anything since you've got to have a village for it to work. A small time player isn't necessarly a member of a village, especially in a game like this where trusting the wrong person can easily lead yourself to death. And making a village has its costs. Beside that, they are villages, so they aren't meant to be built by single people.
As far as vengeance go, yup, it is definitely worse. If you had to "just" pay someone before, now you've got to have a village near the raider. That means, another 2500 silvers. One will probably spend those money rebuilding and not to kill an easily replaceable alt char.

So what's the problem?

Well, for starters, it's really lame that a hermit *has* to build a town bell. Yeah, I understand that personal claims offering invulnerability for 24 (or was it 18?) hours made vault-cycling trivial. But the problem hasn't been removed by axing A Stern Warning, because serious raiders will have sufficient funds to build a dozen town bells for their vaults and cycle those.

But the real problem is the total asymmetry between the attacker and the defender when it comes to resource investment. As long as levelling settlements doesn't cost anything, the game will be too hostile for non-poopsockers to stick around. Fixing this problem would also be the right way to fix the timing issue, ie the speed of destruction should be proportional to resource investment ratio between the attacker and defender. The current invulnerability timer is too prone to abuse because it doesn't take into account the amount of defences.

Hermit spent 10 hours in game to build something, gather, level up proficiencies and learn some skills.
Raiders spent 100 hours to get Cain and Abel skill and 150 humours.
Who should win in a conflict between them?

Why would a fittest char not win?
Why won't a hermit join a town?
Why would people with chars with 300+ humours attack a newbie hermit?
Why would a hermit not understand atm he can lose everything if he doesn't keep it in a safe enough place?

Except you don't spend 10 hours to build. Making dry boards require many days, making crop fields with enough influence can require many weeks.
Destroying a crop field can take, what, 10 seconds?

And alt chars can be easily replaced anyway with the right infrastructure. People feed them with the right items and just the necessary proficiences, since they need just the skills to raid. They are made to be sacrificeable.
Anyway, as i'm saying since, well, august, you can't defend yourself properly with static defenses in an ever-growing game. Walls can be buffed now or then, but the people's humors will increase with time as well. It is basically what already happened with H&H. It happened here as well and it will happen again when people will get enough humors again. Over a certain threshold, even the strongest wall is butter.

Because you get situations like on Plymouth where you have half the server population ratting on the other half so they won't get ran over by the (currently) largest faction on the server.

That, and the simple fact that you can't trust anyone. You don't even need to trust someone, since you can do everything alone. You can't know beforehand if the poor unarmed person in front of you is a ruthless killer that can crush your bones with a single punch or the most miserable person in the world. So, why should you even risk? Once someone is in a village, with the right permissions, he could steal everything he can get and go away without even being able to summon him. Even if he has left scents, you still have to risk losing a char to deliver justice. Basically, there is no reason to make a proper village. In RL, people had to do those cause everyone was capable or had the time to do just some things. Here, everyone can do anything. In RL, usually, life was precious and murderers got murdered by the law. Here everyone can do massacres and you have to risk losing your char even if you successfully stop them. In RL, villages were built in strategic places due to the resources that were available there or for trade routes. Here every place is basically the same. You haven't got lime or something else? Alts & trading via Boston.
Basically, as it is, there is no real reason to make villages other than the waste claims, and even then it is better to stay alone.

[darnokpl]

As far as defense go, it doesn't change anything since you've got to have a village for it to work. A small time player isn't necessarly a member of a village, especially in a game like this where trusting the wrong person can easily lead yourself to death.

Static defences imho are only to slow down raiders not to stop them, in the end you will have to fight!
And this is good if there is faction balance, but real issue in Salem is that you can't trust anyone in here, makes it impossible to create larger town that will have dedicated fighters!
We have no in-game-tools to manage community, so we don't have larger communities.

Except you don't spend 10 hours to build. Making dry boards require many days, making crop fields with enough influence can require many weeks.
Destroying a crop field can take, what, 10 seconds?

And alt chars can be easily replaced anyway with the right infrastructure. People feed them with the right items and just the necessary proficiences, since they need just the skills to raid. They are made to be sacrificeable.

Yes, murder-alts-factories sucks.