A Brave New Salem

Announcements of major changes to Salem.

Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Kaios » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:11 pm

Okocim wrote:Thats pretty bad idea in my opinion. I know, Custom Clients made Salem playable, but it gave unfair advantages to few players who were able to create them.
Is this a programming competition or mmorpg?
And one more question? Are u going to do something with bots, or are u going to just allow them?


This issue is so much worse in Haven & Hearth and it's another topic of discussion I took part in on the Haven forum in rather great length. You're bound to get many varying opinions on why custom clients are a good thing and a bad thing but for the most part I am in agreement with you. They do more harm than good.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby JohnCarver » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:15 pm

wiatrak wrote:well im a type of a crafting guy so im mostly interested into it.

Adding more content will result in more diversity in characters. Right now we've got one crafter alt per base.

The days of having one do-all and do-everything crafter will be coming to an end. That is not to say the game will now allow you to do it, but that it would be absurdly difficult for you to be a "Jack-Of-All-Trades" at the same skill level as a player who simply emphasized a particular proficiency or trade.

wiatrak wrote:Speaking about alts. I'd like to know if we should be used to play 1 character or have an alts for diffrent things(pvp and such), when we look on the perma death its not worth investing all your time into one character. What will you say about that?

Excellent point. We anticipate the pvpers will always go for alts. We have plans to limit their effectiveness, but are realists enough to know we can never fully stop it. We don't see crafters choosing to simultaneously be pvp fighters with our changes. For better or for worse I guess.

wiatrak wrote:Crafting = take material -> make a thing, i dont know if you've seen vanguard crafting, i tried to play it but it wasn't the game i liked, still that system was awesome. Any chance we will get some complexity to crafting?(this game was somewhat called "crafting mmo")

I dropped Vanguard when Sony took over. So my mind is fuzzy on it. What exactly did you like about Vanguard crafting? Our marketing will no longer brand this title as The Crafting MMO once we shift focus to it. We have no intention to take away that very nifty and fun faucet, but its time to get real. This is the Permadeath, high stakes, high risk, high drama MMO that has fun crafting as a means of character advancement.
ceedat wrote:the overwhelming frustration of these forums and the unnecessarily over complicated game mechanics is what i enjoy about this game most.

Nsuidara wrote:it is a strange and difficult game in no positive way
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Okocim » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:16 pm

Kaios wrote:
Okocim wrote:Thats pretty bad idea in my opinion. I know, Custom Clients made Salem playable, but it gave unfair advantages to few players who were able to create them.
Is this a programming competition or mmorpg?
And one more question? Are u going to do something with bots, or are u going to just allow them?


This issue is so much worse in Haven & Hearth and it's another topic of discussion I took part in on the Haven forum in rather great length. You're bound to get many varying opinions on why custom clients are a good thing and a bad thing but for the most part I am in agreement with you. They do more harm than good.


Was playing haven for a long while, and i know what the custom client's and bots became... That's what i don't want to happen in Salem.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Realak » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:16 pm

A question I'm sure is on the minds of people who have dropped over 100$ into this game.

It is still beta/alpha, we don't care who the owner is.

When you guys finally go to live will all store bought items be given to us again as it should be or is it " hurr durr sorry buy everything again."

???
Oops. I Dropped My Doritos. ¦]
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Mereni » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:18 pm

This is pretty overwhelming, but if it all happens the way John Carver says it's going to, it sounds fabulous. I'm really hoping those horses are part of the first patch. I know there might be other more important things to code to really fix the game, but being able to ride all over the map on a horse would keep me entertained for a month at least. :lol:

And we're finally getting Witchcraft and Animal Husbandry? I almost can believe it, but if so: Yay!! \o/
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby JohnCarver » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:22 pm

Potjeh wrote:How about that 80/80/80 going up against an 800/800/800? Ie, will there be a cap on stats, even if it takes infinite effort to reach it? If yes, how much grind would one need to invest into a character to go toe to toe with a character that's very close to this cap?

No hard cap on stats. 80 to all vs 800 to all is going to lose. There won't be a whole lot he can do about it. That being said, 800 to all is going to be more equivalent to a 100fold investment of time instead of the seemingly 10fold. Should somebody who has invested 100 hours to every 1 of yours be scared to walk into that fight? I don't think so. So that being said, get some friends, or get some stats. We have entertained various combat systems that may have % based damage application as a means to make this scenario a bit more possible. The better question is would somebody who invests the time to get to 800 to all be willing to drop scents on that character? That is a huge risk to lose something that would easily represent a year of his life.

Potjeh wrote:How will the game differentiate between breaking into a base and leveling a base? Virtually any structure can be used as a wall. And yeah, waste takes moderate grind investment, but it's orders of magnitude lower than the investment required to build a decent base. Trading a waste character for a whole base would be a pretty good deal for the attacker.

True, which is why wasting down the base to nothing won't stay in its current form. As with everything we do, we wish it to be possible, but the investment of time to be unrewarding in contract of how much time it would take. Structures being used as walls will need to be addressed in the same way tree walls were and will undoubtedly have its hurdles but I think we can overcome.

Potjeh wrote:As for the speed, I'm not referring to things you just need to wait a long time for (like timber piles), but can do other stuff while you wait. I'm talking about actions that you can't interrupt if you want them done, but which take excessive amount of time (such as making doughs or felling trees). Queuing actions sounds like a pretty good way to handle that, but you'll need to do a lot of work on the interface for that to work out. I might want to make five bear and deer meat pies, three deer and bear and four beaver and rabbit without juggling ingredients like crazy to exploit the current LIFO system for selecting ingredients.

I knew what you meant. And yes I like queuing actions.
ceedat wrote:the overwhelming frustration of these forums and the unnecessarily over complicated game mechanics is what i enjoy about this game most.

Nsuidara wrote:it is a strange and difficult game in no positive way
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby wiatrak » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:22 pm

JohnCarver wrote:I dropped Vanguard when Sony took over. So my mind is fuzzy on it. What exactly did you like about Vanguard crafting?


Well i've played it like 3-4 weeks or so so i didnt check it very well, just the lots of stuff to do while crafting that can change an item in a diffrent way, talking about salem i was thinking about some magic powders, poisons and stuff which you can craft with alchemy, and which deplete after certain time/uses.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Kaios » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:24 pm

Okocim wrote:Was playing haven for a long while, and i know what the custom client's and bots became... That's what i don't want to happen in Salem.


I don't want to see the botting issues spiral out of control here like they have in Haven either. It's honestly the perfect example as to why a CLOSED SOURCE CLIENT is a good thing to have. Before anyone goes off saying "Well that still doesn't prevent botting!!!!!!!" You're right, it's not a complete 100% fool-proof option to getting rid of botters, but it certainly helps to curb the situation a great deal. Of course that means the original game client would likely have to include many of the features that current custom clients offer.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby Potjeh » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:26 pm

So PvP is still a grinding competition. Best of luck to you, but I think I'll pass.
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Re: A Brave New Salem

Postby JohnCarver » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:27 pm

wiatrak wrote:Thats pretty bad idea in my opinion. I know, Custom Clients made Salem playable, but it gave unfair advantages to few players who were able to create them.
Is this a programming competition or mmorpg?
And one more question? Are u going to do something with bots, or are u going to just allow them?

Botting will not be allowed. That being said, it will be stopped to the extent that our software can identify it. Botters may still get through as they always find a way to do, but we reserve the right to disable those accounts and will be placing in measures to limit botting whenever possible.

I'm sorry you feel that way about Custom Clients but the better question is where have we failed in the server to client interaction that is allowing the client itself to be such an unfair advantage. I would much rather spend time investigating those flaws than to simply eliminate the ability to tweak your window to our world.

Potjeh wrote:So PvP is still a grinding competition. Best of luck to you, but I think I'll pass.


I wish we had a solution to make some utopia where the guy who invested 5 hours has some magical way to take down the guy who invested 500. But I feel that is more unfair to the 500 hour player than it is to the 5 if we were to implement such a solution anyway. If you want an even playing field at all times there are plenty of FPS and MOBA titles that even the odds for you every round. Salem PVP is more defined by the strategy, preparation, and dedication you can place into the inevitable fight you find yourself in. We don't have any intentions of breaking that mold too far.
ceedat wrote:the overwhelming frustration of these forums and the unnecessarily over complicated game mechanics is what i enjoy about this game most.

Nsuidara wrote:it is a strange and difficult game in no positive way
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