Salem

What I would like to see is that every piece of food, or every component rather, has it's own bonus of equal value.
Meaning; in a recipe these bonuses apply.

Example:
Wild garlic, garlic bulb, piece of garlic all have equal value in terms of gluttony, however have different bonuses towards different biles.

Like a Pooh, garlic parts and bulbs both have very desired results while the wild one is trash.

The higher tier food should simply be the reproducible aspect and not necessarily the grind towards an end product.

Mushrooms should all be of equal importance, the more rare ones just give more desired results towards a particular bile.
The common ons just give a more generic toward a different bile, used as fillers in some sessions, used as a main in others.

I hope I've been able to get the idea across.

In other words, no matter what components you use you want particular type of food to give equal amount of biles, but with better ingredients it would be more specialised, right?

I'm not sure it's possible with current food formulas (including multiplying of matrixes). And I don't see why would that be good for the game. Lots of tweaking for a minor, questionable effect.

While the t1 ingredients are more or less all crap, all of the t2 ingredients have an area that they are better than the t3 version. The problem is that the selection of good recipes is so small you don't see this in uses, especially for the end game. If we had a wider selection of good recipes, particularly ones that have multiple variable components, we would see more uses for t2 ingredients.

DarkNacht wrote:The problem is that the selection of good recipes is so small

This. Essentially each bile has one, singular more or less optimal dish -- depending, perhaps, mildly on the resources you have available -- and this is precisely the most fundamental problem we want to address by revamping the gluttony system. I've spoken on it here.

I still think that imposing limit of 1 food type per bile increase would bring more color to the game than any other system proposed so far. Instead of the limit of your biles being decided by your ability to produce tonnes of the most efficient food it is decided by the diversity and quality of food you can obtain. In the end the strongest characters have to practically eat all types of food available in the game. Meaning they have make use of all production chains and industry branches.
And each food type is somehow useful for everyone.

Procne wrote:

In other words, no matter what components you use you want particular type of food to give equal amount of biles, but with better ingredients it would be more specialised, right?

I'm not sure it's possible with current food formulas (including multiplying of matrixes). And I don't see why would that be good for the game. Lots of tweaking for a minor, questionable effect.

The idea is that regardless of the component being more special then the other it should have it's own advantages.
I find a good example of this to be the Pooh recipe regarding the separate garlic parts or using a whole bulb.
This in combination with the type of cabbage etc will yield different results.

I am saying, I want the lower tier foods to be of equal value when added as a component.
So instead of having a select high tier valuable recipe, I would like to see them "equal" of value depending on personal preferences.

Pooh: Red cabbage, Bear stake and Garlic parts = > Profitable towards Blood bile
Pooh: Red cabbage, Bear stake and Garlic bulb = > Profitable towards Pleghm
Pooh: Red cabbage, Bear stake and Wild garlic = > Waste of time. <- (IDEA) This should not be the case on a high tier recipe.

Because the Wild garlic is a "little effort" item (Which is silly when you hate to forage and it is not replant-able as wild garlic) it's bonuses feel, neglecting.

Summary: Higher tier food should have higher tier results regardless of the tier of its components. The outcome should be unique towards a goal. Even if it gives one advantage withing a given time in the gluttony sequences.

DarkNacht wrote:

While the t1 ingredients are more or less all crap, all of the t2 ingredients have an area that they are better than the t3 version. The problem is that the selection of good recipes is so small you don't see this in uses, especially for the end game. If we had a wider selection of good recipes, particularly ones that have multiple variable components, we would see more uses for t2 ingredients.

Exactly where DarkNacht is heading; T1 base, for example a pie base, on it's own has lower overall outcome regardless of its secondary/tertiary components/ingredients compared to T2 & T3. However once T2 is acquired there is no point in using T1, there however is use to using T2 cereals opposing to T3 cereals.

T3 outcomes should always remain more profitable overall but should not exclusively be so.
A T1 pie with particular ingredients should, in my opinion have some advantages towards at least 1 event in a sequence per component/ingredient.

Even with the current recipes and this idea one could carefully prepare glutton sessions that have more then 1-4 different food types.

(Idea) One should not have to always forage when they have a complete civilized settlement but it should have benefits other then a necessity to successfully increase your biles but rather it's efficiency.

jorb wrote:This. Essentially each bile has one, singular more or less optimal dish -- depending, perhaps, mildly on the resources you have available -- and this is precisely the most fundamental problem we want to address by revamping the gluttony system. I've spoken on it here.

Exactly! The idea I am trying to convey is to step away from a singular directive path and have a more "experimental" menu where different food ingredients in recipes have different outcomes with at least 1 sequence of equal value regardless of the tiers.

Some of the recipe's have beautiful variations that excite me when I find a useful component combination while others are just a waste of time.

Please Jorb, can I be a food scientist proper cook?


My apologies for the wall of text everyone who read it all, I however hope I have been able to convey the idea.

Procne wrote:I still think that imposing limit of 1 food type per bile increase would bring more color to the game than any other system proposed so far. Instead of the limit of your biles being decided by your ability to produce tonnes of the most efficient food it is decided by the diversity and quality of food you can obtain. In the end the strongest characters have to practically eat all types of food available in the game. Meaning they have make use of all production chains and industry branches.
And each food type is somehow useful for everyone.

This.

Procne wrote:I still think that imposing limit of 1 food type per bile increase would bring more color to the game than any other system proposed so far. Instead of the limit of your biles being decided by your ability to produce tonnes of the most efficient food it is decided by the diversity and quality of food you can obtain. In the end the strongest characters have to practically eat all types of food available in the game. Meaning they have make use of all production chains and industry branches.
And each food type is somehow useful for everyone.

In essence this is what I'm trying to say. I was trying to explain the mechanics of such.
Next to this to have more valuable receipy variation based on ingredients.

So the desired end state of gluttony is:

1.) Many recipes have the same values in gluttony. This eliminates the single recipe per bile issue.

2.) Invariance forces you to use a wide variety of recipes if you want to attain the highest biles.

RonPaulFTW wrote:So the desired end state of gluttony is:

1.) Many recipes have the same values in gluttony. This eliminates the single recipe per bile issue.

2.) Invariance forces you to use a wide variety of recipes if you want to attain the highest biles.

If I understand the point of the existing alchemy tools correctly, it is to get to items with 50% purity in each of two elements. There would be no point to alchemy if 1.) was true. Thus the answer must be that most recipes continue to favor 1 or two biles & events. We just need more recipes with similar values. This doesn't exclude the idea that swapping out a single ingredient in a recipe changes its bile or elemental focus.

Maybe each recipe has a standard constant 1-2 elements it favors. The bile though depends on the ingredients.