Salem

Make different level of punishment for newbies and different for advanced characters...

If average biles are not higher than 25 and average profs are not higher than 20 after death character should lose only 25% biles and profs and should be disabled in char select menu for 24 hours.

Of course if character had higher biles or profs he should die just like it is now.

darnokpl wrote:Make different level of punishment for newbies and different for advanced characters...

If average biles are not higher than 25 and average profs are not higher than 20 after death character should lose only 25% biles and profs and should be disabled in char select menu for 24 hours.

Of course if character had higher biles or profs he should die just like it is now.

Good idea. And it will be better with additional abuse-preventing options. Options like:
- Character has no crime skills.
- Character can have this-variation-of-death only 3 times.
etc.

I like the idea, but is 5 bile crafter with 100 H&N considered newbie? i think not.

in addition to bile, maybe also some skill req.
etc average 25 bile OR total 250 skill points etc.

I don't see a reason to protect new characters that probably don't have much to lose to begin with. Just make a new one and use your experience to catch up to where you were. At most I can see a grace period of a few hours of active in-game time, just enough to figure out the controls and get your bearings.
Besides, such means are a slippery slope. No matter what you set the threshold to, there will be people whining that it's too low, people whining that it's too high, and people exploiting it to make functionally immortal characters.

Grichmann wrote: and people exploiting it to make functionally immortal characters.

Like LOMS said 3 times only per char or per account that isn't immortality.

I don't see a reason to protect new characters that probably don't have much to lose to begin with.

This.

If the character has nothing to lose, he should start over. If the character is advanced enough, he is not covered by this improvement.
This would introduce alt-abuse possibilities which is not good.

It doesn't matter how many "lives" you get this way. It's a means of creating characters that take much less effort to get to the threshold than it takes to "kill" them however many times it takes. Maybe they aren't truly functionally immortal, but it's closer than what can be achieved now.

But really, before we start discussing how to make such means of protection reliable and abuse-free, we need to decide whether we need such protection to begin with. So, why do you think new characters need this kind of protection, but older ones don't?

Randall wrote:

I don't see a reason to protect new characters that probably don't have much to lose to begin with.

This.

If the character has nothing to lose, he should start over. If the character is advanced enough, he is not covered by this improvement.
This would introduce alt-abuse possibilities which is not good.

Advanced players doesn't see or think like new people here, newbies think that if they lose character it is game over, pros just will do what he said.
Imho this-low-perma-death should work like free teleport from capital city, if you get higher biles, profs or tresspassing, larceny, blacksmithing, botany (or other skills from medium level that require any prof 20+) your death-protection is over.

Grichmann wrote:It doesn't matter how many "lives" you get this way. It's a means of creating characters that take much less effort to get to the threshold than it takes to "kill" them however many times it takes. Maybe they aren't truly functionally immortal, but it's closer than what can be achieved now.

But really, before we start discussing how to make such means of protection reliable and abuse-free, we need to decide whether we need such protection to begin with. So, why do you think new characters need this kind of protection, but older ones don't?

Look at http://login.salemthegame.com/portal/state look at scalping thread.
Many may disagree with me, but it is only my opinion vs yours to have real understanding we could use in-game-poll (so very new people would use it too) with questions like "Do you know it is perma death game?", "Do you know on how many ways you can die in this game?" etc etc

Yes, it is your opinion against mine. That's what arguments are about. So please, do explain yours. I don't think a poll would be representative of anything relevant. And I don't think I count as an advanced player, either - in fact, I'm nearly exactly at the humour threshold you're suggesting right now.

If the problem is new players not knowing that there's permadeath - and a lot of them coming in without doing research on the game probably don't, seeing how it's not explained anywhere in-game - the problem is not protecting; it's clearing up all such misunderstandings before they even begin playing - like with a tutorial.
As a matter of fact, I think death protection, no matter how it's implemented, will not solve the problem, but only exacerbate it: if a newbie gets saved by it once, he may think that this penalty to humours and aptitudes is all the penalty there is, and not fear death next time. If he doesn't "die" during his grace period, this learning mechanism doesn't even work. In both cases, letting our hypothetical newbie know about permadeath beforehand solves the problem without any crutches.

The new player experience has to be improved, I'm not arguing that. I'll be in favour of soft-core servers with no permadeath (but let's not touch that subject here, okay?). But I seriously doubt exclusive rule crutches are the way to go about it.

Nope, nothing skill based on this... too many things you can do to cause problems to other people and abuse the crap out of this. If it were "time based" (age of account, hours played), then it's just going to be something that delays the inevitable. (Even then, it creates some of the same openings for severe abuses.)