A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby Devourer_of_Pancakes » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:04 pm

Permadeath is pretty hardcore stuff. If a player decides to kill you (and succeeds), then that's that: Your character is gone, you can start over. That's a pretty dramatic event for the victim. The killer, on the other hand, can just move to find a new target, like nothing ever happened. So newbies get hunted for sport, murdered and used as trophies to decorate forum threads.

This just doesn't seem right to me. Murder should be a dramatic and exceptional event, something you do to a specially chosen victim because of rivalry, jealousy or spite, or out of self-defence because you really have to. Not just because it's a Friday afternoon and you feel like butchering the next ten noobs you run across. As such, I feel there should be a cost associated with murder.

My suggestion is to permanently drain an amount of black bile (say, 10) from a character whenever they commit murder, recoverable only through gluttony. This achieves the following:

  • Murder becomes a dramatic event for the killer. It's no longer something you do willy-nilly; you only kill when you have a good reason to do so.
  • Newbies get a soft form of permadeath protection. After all, killing random noobs isn't exactly profitable anymore.
  • Rivals will still kill each other, given the chance. 10 BB is a cheap price to pay for the life of a well-developed character.
  • Killers get to silence their guilty conscience by stuffing themselves full of cabbage cakes. Recovering after you commit murder isn't particularly hard, so long as you don't do it too often.
  • Higher-bile characters must eat more than lower-bile ones to recover their maximum black bile. Such characters typically have easier access to high purity foods, so it evens out.

To avoid griefing by parking alts on someone's claim, killing a player on your claim should be free.

So why black bile?

  • Black bile is already associated with criminal actions. Murder is about as criminal as it gets.
  • Black bile is used as the "mental stat" in-game. A heavy conscience is obviously a mental condition.

Black bile also makes sense from the bits and pieces I've read on the internets. From wikipedia: "Melancholics* can [...] become preoccupied with the tragedy and cruelty in the world."(source). Death is a tragedy, and few things are more cruel than murdering another person. Thus it makes sense that anyone with excess black bile would be more inclined to commit murder on a regular basis**. Anyone with a shortage of black bile would be less likely to kill.
* The melancholic condition is associated with black bile. (source 1, source 2)
** This could be total BS to anyone with solid knowledge about philosophy and psychology and other (pseudo)sciency stuff - AKA not me. It's a video game. Anything that sounds like it could make sense goes, even if it's BS ;)



TL;DR: Make murder permanently reduce black bile. Save the noobs!
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby Dallane » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:09 pm

It wouldn't do anything to stop noob killing. 10 BB is nothing. They will just have to load up more cabbage cakes then usual.
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby Devourer_of_Pancakes » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:18 pm

Dallane wrote:It wouldn't do anything to stop noob killing. 10 BB is nothing. They will just have to load up more cabbage cakes then usual.

Okay. What amount would be enough to disincentivise random noob killing, while keeping murder a viable tool for settling disputes?
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby Procne » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:26 pm

How long is the criminal debuff after murder? How many charges?
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby Devourer_of_Pancakes » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:49 pm

Procne wrote:How long is the criminal debuff after murder? How many charges?

If I read "Crime scents and debuffs are a reasonable deterrent for murder already" between the lines here, would I be correct?

Because that's probably true in many cases. Except that a newbie won't be able to use those scents for anything, unless a more powerful player is willing to do their dirty work. Scents do more to protect the more advanced players who have multiple characters, allies and fortified/remote bases.

As for the criminal debuff, I imagine it's quite an annoyance, but nothing a high bile character can't deal with.

(If in this case your question is really just a question, I'm afraid I've no idea. Still working on my murder character, and none of my characters have died so far.)
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby Dallane » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:16 pm

"e="Procne"]How long is the criminal debuff after murder? How many charges?[/quote]
"
I don't think you even get a criminal buff after killing someone but i never stopped to count or pay attention. I know it doesn't trigger braziers.
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby darnokpl » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:20 pm

Devourer_of_Pancakes wrote:[*]Rivals will still kill each other, given the chance. 10 BB is a cheap price to pay for the life of a well-developed character.


IMO murder should drain 20-30% of BB and 10-20% YB (as skill cast cost), but not permanently.

To help newbies we need change in capital city claim mechanic to allow people run into it even while in combat...
and when char is on claim combat is dropped for both sides.
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby L33LEE » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:33 pm

How about lets deal with the fact if i defend myself against an aggressor and KO them(purely in self defense as they attacked me first), i drop a summon-able scent.

That needs fixing before changing anything imho.
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby Potjeh » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:04 pm

Actually, you don't.
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Re: A Killer's Conscience: BB drain on murder

Postby darnokpl » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:13 pm

Potjeh wrote:Actually, you don't.


Hmm? It was fixed?
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