Salem

I know that the first thought would be to say "No". That raiders should be able to sell their goods etc.

However...

With the current system theft scents can be effectively used to track anyone by selling scented goods to them. Simply steal some items from your alt, sell / give them to someone, and follow scents. I see this as a bad side-effect of the scent system.

I think the main of purpose of it was the ability to find lost goods, or thief's storehouse. Not as a free GPS attached to items.

If we don't want to remove item tracking, we could just mark scented items somehow. And once scents fade, so does the mark. This way people would be able to make sure that goods they buy are not dangerous to them. Or just take the risk. And raiders? They can wait for scents to fade and then sell clean goods. It makes it harder for them to get rid of stolen goods, but imo it would be more of a feature - instead of selling items right away after theft they would have to store them for some time. At the same time victim would have some time when tracking items would actually make sense, as he would track them to the raider's storehouse instead of some random person who bought them in Boston.

This is the only viable solution I could come up with. The other ones included ability to remove scents from items or inability to enter Boston with scented goods in inventory.

Of course, there is still a question whether "GPS items" were a mechanic intended by devs. And whether they want to maintain Boston trading and not the HnH's model of village porting

Would be nice but makes no sense. You can't really tell is something is stolen unless there are some serious clues to that on said item or getting a feel for the person you are dealing with.

Best bet for a scent free item is only trade/buy from stalls with people you know that are not looting.

I'm not sure you understood. My proposition was to add markers to items which would indicate that item has scents attached.

The idea was not to be able to avoid trading stolen goods. But to be able to protect yourself from buying "GPS items" which someone may use to track you down.

On the low level it could work like this - when theft scent is generated there is some flag raised on item which indicates that there is scent related to the item. Or maybe better a date when said scent was created. Such item will be marked as "scented" by server, and as such displayed in client. Once enough time passes date is cleared and item is unscented.
To avoid some bugs and / or exploits (infinite scents? or was it only for evidence?), when scent is used to track item, and item is no longer marked as "scented", the scent will disappear.

i like the idea that you can buy/trade stolen items and be tracked, i think it adds a lot to the game.
if there was a mechanism to find out if it was stolen it would take that feature away.

i previously brought up the idea that stalls should only be allowed to sell items that were crafted by the stall owner. For 2 reasons.
1 it helps to better establish the merchant side of the game, and secondly it makes it harder for criminals to sell their stolen items which i think is the way it should be imo. not impossible but much much harder.

if stolen items are allowed to be sold in the stalls eventually all independant merchants will be out competed by large raiding factions which i think would be a shame.

i love how this game is really attractive to both carebarish players and hardcore faction types, and surprisingly both can coexist in this game. mm is starting to realize and trying to implement a way of taking in carebarish players by providing them with a safe environement (so they say), maybe not the best example, but the game favors that type of scenario. but the independant type players imo will find less and less room in this game. that idea came about with that in mind.

iambobthepirate wrote:i like the idea that you can buy/trade stolen items and be tracked, i think it adds a lot to the game.
if there was a mechanism to find out if it was stolen it would take that feature away.

I am not against that feature. It's good that victim can track the items they lost.

What I am against is using scent system as a mean to track other people. When there is no real theft, there are no stolen goods and no victims. Except for the guy who buys the scented items

Procne wrote:

iambobthepirate wrote:i like the idea that you can buy/trade stolen items and be tracked, i think it adds a lot to the game.
if there was a mechanism to find out if it was stolen it would take that feature away.

I am not against that feature. It's good that victim can track the items they lost.

What I am against is using scent system as a mean to track other people. When there is no real theft, there are no stolen goods and no victims. Except for the guy who buys the scented items

right but i like that feature imo you should be penalized in some way for buying stolen goods,

but that only works if there is a distinction between stolen and non stolen goods. my idea by making stalls sell legit stuff, makes that distinction. so players can buy legit from the stalls or take there chances in open trade.

as it stands players have no way of knowing if they buy stolen goods and are being penalized for it. which i think is unfair. open trade is where players should be faced with the consequence of buying stolen goods. whether they do it knowingly or unwittingly. buyer beware buying stuff in the backalleys of boston.

right but i like that feature imo you should be penalized in some way for buying stolen goods,

Well, it would still be possible. Raiders can still sell stolen goods, shorly after theft, but marked. Buyers may request lowered price because of the risk involved. Or raider can hide the goods for a few days until scents fade and then sell goods as clean.

but that only works if there is a distinction between stolen and non stolen goods. my idea by making stalls sell legit stuff, makes that distinction. so players can buy legit from the stalls or take there chances in open trade.

I remember you proposing this. And the answer was that if stalls make this distinction then they effectively become a mechanism to check whether item has scents or not. Something that I propose in this thread.

as it stands players have no way of knowing if they buy stolen goods and are being penalized for it. which i think is unfair. open trade is where players should be faced with the consequence of buying stolen goods. whether they do it knowingly or unwittingly. buyer beware buying stuff in the backalleys of boston.

I am confused here. You say it's unfair people can't check whether the goods they buy are stolen or not. But then you say they should be faced with consequences whether they know or not, as it didn't matter.

Procne wrote:

right but i like that feature imo you should be penalized in some way for buying stolen goods,

Well, it would still be possible. Raiders can still sell stolen goods, shorly after theft, but marked. Buyers may request lowered price because of the risk involved. Or raider can hide the goods for a few days until scents fade and then sell goods as clean.

but that only works if there is a distinction between stolen and non stolen goods. my idea by making stalls sell legit stuff, makes that distinction. so players can buy legit from the stalls or take there chances in open trade.

I remember you proposing this. And the answer was that if stalls make this distinction then they effectively become a mechanism to check whether item has scents or not. Something that I propose in this thread.

as it stands players have no way of knowing if they buy stolen goods and are being penalized for it. which i think is unfair. open trade is where players should be faced with the consequence of buying stolen goods. whether they do it knowingly or unwittingly. buyer beware buying stuff in the backalleys of boston.

I am confused here. You say it's unfair people can't check whether the goods they buy are stolen or not. But then you say they should be faced with consequences whether they know or not, as it didn't matter.

i agree with you in genaral, but i don't want to completely take out the feature, just limit it.
in essence as it stands you are always in a position to buy stolen goods and be tracked (no way of knowing).

in my example when you buy from the stalls you know for sure its not stolen
when you buy in open trade you would be taking a risk but you would never know for sure.

iambobthepirate wrote:

Procne wrote:

right but i like that feature imo you should be penalized in some way for buying stolen goods,

Well, it would still be possible. Raiders can still sell stolen goods, shorly after theft, but marked. Buyers may request lowered price because of the risk involved. Or raider can hide the goods for a few days until scents fade and then sell goods as clean.

but that only works if there is a distinction between stolen and non stolen goods. my idea by making stalls sell legit stuff, makes that distinction. so players can buy legit from the stalls or take there chances in open trade.

I remember you proposing this. And the answer was that if stalls make this distinction then they effectively become a mechanism to check whether item has scents or not. Something that I propose in this thread.

as it stands players have no way of knowing if they buy stolen goods and are being penalized for it. which i think is unfair. open trade is where players should be faced with the consequence of buying stolen goods. whether they do it knowingly or unwittingly. buyer beware buying stuff in the backalleys of boston.

I am confused here. You say it's unfair people can't check whether the goods they buy are stolen or not. But then you say they should be faced with consequences whether they know or not, as it didn't matter.

i agree with you in genaral, but i don't want to completely take out the feature, just limit it.
in essence as it stands you are always in a position to buy stolen goods and be tracked (no way of knowing).

in my example when you buy from the stalls you know for sure its not stolen
when you buy in open trade you would be taking a risk but you would never know for sure.

The problem is, anyone who has access to a stall could buy stuff on the open market, and then try to add it to the stall to see if it was stolen. So stall owners have both the benefit of being the only safe sellers, and being the only ones who get to buy stuff from the open market without risk of getting tracked. Average joe traders without a stall suffer greatly from your idea. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, all that goodness.

The current situation, where you can just add an invisible GPS chip to any item before selling/trading/donating it, is pretty stupid. Following a thief's tracks to their lair makes sense. Globally locating an item that was sold in the capital does not. I mean, just imagine:
Absolutely bonkers, and that's not even the exploit version (stealing stuff from your own alt to track a buyer). Want your stuff back? Find the thief and beat him up until he tells you who bought it. Or just take your revenge on the thief and move on.

With visible item scents, you can choose to sell stolen goods (cheaply), or stash them until the scent has worn off. Because stolen property would be recognizable, you get a clear distinction between legitimate trade and the black market. Sounds cool! Unscrupulous sorts could play fences, buying stolen goods in bulk and stashing it until they either find a buyer, or the scent wears off so they can sell it. It's risky, but there should be some decent profit involved

Two solutions to the GPS problem:

1) Build a separate location to serve as 'item quarantaine'. No heavy defense needed, the only thing you will lose when it's raided is the suspicious items that are stored there. Only store newly bought items there for as long as it takes theft scents to expire.

2) buy one or more slots in a market stall. Whenever you buy a suspicious item, put it up for sale there yourself, highly overpriced. Get them back once scents expire. Can't be looted. Worst that can happen is you making a profit if an emotionally attached owner actually buys it back.