Rebalancing defences

[Sevenless]

Sounds lovely, I think one of the issues with our proposed system though: Is there anything in this game that's worth stealing? (grudge matches just aren't enough imo)

If we make the aforementioned siege system, we're gonna have to do something towards also making items worth that effort to get. Thinking back I had such a suggestion with that Pride idea, but obviously we'll need more options on the table than just one.

[Potjeh]

Well, just plain old theft (as opposed to destroying the place) would be fairly cheap to pull off, so it'd be profitable. You'd be fairly limited on how much you can take from a single base, but it'd be a quick job so you could raid multiple bases in a single run. So you can still get good loot, and individual targets only get a minor setback. Best possible compromise for both sides.

As for worthwhile loot, I think we'll have some when we finally have proper implementation of purity. That, and higher end industries, like jewellery or silk. Hell, I'd argue that oiled boards are already valuable enough to make these thefts worthwhile.

[jwhitehorn]

Anyway, assaulting will obviously be horribly expensive, so I really don't see loot covering the costs. Which IMO is a good thing, because it promotes diplomacy over war.

Extremely dumb idea. There are plenty of games out there that create a "lose/lose" in every PVp exchange. Salem is unique because it is one of the very few games where at the end of the day the aggressor can say "You know what I am better for attacking this player".

As a raider there is already a VERY fine line between determining if you could have advanced your city/character farther by simply planting another dozen crops or stealing a bunch of low-quality stuff from other players. Sure sometimes you find a large inexperienced group of players who leave thousands of gluttony foods for you or let you P-Claim their city but the majority of the time you'll find the best stuff of a settlement is alt-vaulted or in a purse and they are offline leaving you with an hour of crimes for less than an hour of stolen goods.

Raiding currently requires some adjustments but SIGNIFICANTLY less adjustments then the general public seems to think. It seems that they are basing their opinions on two things:

#1: A very poor Claim-Managed city of Gallows Hill
#2: A very poor constructed vault of Terribad Cove

Now an argument can be had that The Tribe should have had a harder time seiging both and that players should not be forced to "think" about their Defenses and strategy when planning a city. The simple fact that they invested hundreds if not thousands of hours in what they "thought" were good ideas should have protected them.

I, however, disagree. I think that knowledge is power in this game and it very much revolves around a steep learning curve. I feel like base-design and defense layout should be no different. I applaud the person who posted his ideas about a Tree Vault (and yes you very much can place them next to eachother and yes The Tribe very much as already done this). I also appluad a Hermit who held back 3 braves for INFINITELY longer than Onery did with half the walls and half the Braziers by using his brain and having a much smarter D setup. In fact this one hermit caused us to give up that night and just come back later.

In short, The entire Might of the Tribe CANNOT destroy our own towns. That is the bar that we measure our base and that is the reason who know that the system is very "close" to being balanced. Even with 300+ Phlegm/BB the Tribal lands would stand for 10 times longer than any scenario that has been witnessed or discussed on these forums. So now its up to the community to either:

A) Spend time designing and working on better D with the tools they have.

B) Find the Tribe and steal their technology.

But sitting around asking for the game to be changed because you have failed to master/understand it seems silly to us. If walls or Braziers are buffed in the ways suggested in this thread then the Tribal Lands will require 1,000+ Humour characters.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[colesie]

Really how is the Chief allowed to insult people in every subforum? Idc about some favoritism but it's just blatanty obvious

[Dallane]

Really how is the Chief allowed to insult people in every subforum? Idc about some favoritism but it's just blatanty obvious

Because the mods are sick of banning him and then moo logs on and unbans him because he likes the chief. You have to wait until Moo gets on to see if he is going to show favoritism or not because no one else wants to deal with it.

If i made a post like this I would get the ban hammer for a week

[Ornery]

lolk cheef

[jwhitehorn]

This is NOT the place to discuss what you perceived as an insult. That was very much my opinion to advance the discussion of this thread. The links to my video and references to the events have already been made SEVERAL times in this forum. Insults like this

you know, it takes a lot to get me riled but meddling ***** like you are certainly one of my peeves, it would be extremely difficult for me to not rip your arms off and beat you to death with them were we to ever cross paths.

(Directed @ a mod no-less) Have already gone unpunished in this thread.

I have done nothing in this thread above and beyond what has already been said/done in regards to the insult or off-topic discussion. In fact, it is quite the opposite. I am using those events as a very clear and pointed direction to try to help the community understand that there does exist a more favorable "balance" just waiting to be found.

This discussion is more like a noob coming to the forums with an idea to change the gluttony system when he hasn't even discovered purity yet. We have NEVER found a base implementing the D strategies we use. And the strategies we use prevent us from destroying our own base. Just like you will NEVER find somebody without Purity in the 200+ humours. Does that mean the entire system needs to be re-worked? Or does that mean that the player who can't figure out purity needs to spend more time discovering/learning it?

I believe the "insults" are more hurtful when I type them because I in fact inflicted them but they are not meant as insults. I have seen (3) cities out of probably (300) that have implmented "outside of hte box" strategies that could slow us down and/or stop us. So Gallows and terribad are the "majority" in this regard by having the poor layouts. All I'm saying is the solution people are looking for is already in the game. SOME balance couldn't hurt but its nowhere near the level that is being suggested.

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[Bronsontucker]

Could always surround your claims with brick townhouses and timber piles i suppose

[Dallane]

BS

This is another reason he gets away with stuff like this. He makes long ass explanations that aren't him screaming and cursing claiming he didn't mean to be insulting.

His outside the box defenses include having boulders surrounding your base that a person has to chip to remove or find the 1 lucky stone that isn't bugged like the urns.

[jwhitehorn]

Could always surround your claims with brick townhouses and timber piles i suppose

Brick townhouses are too expensive and still come down a bit too easy with high Phlegm.

Timber Piles will only work for 5 days until they are harvestable. If you are willing to rebuild them 5 days (and have a small enough footprint to fully enclose) than this could definitely work. But once harvestable they trigger only 1 crime to harvest and a determined raider would just do "Collect Boards" and CNTRL click them to the ground until it disappeared. I would consider the Timber Piles more of an exploit though as I don't believe any items should be indestructible. In terms of the Brickhouse I do believe that in the case of a Vault it should be placed ON one of the walls. In the case of Terribad there was a high-soak townhouse but it was 2 squares OFF the wall which mans the raider can breach the wall and walk AROUND it (which is actually what we did with Rocky). But if you were to place your structures FLUSH against the wall you would essentially gain a high-soak D item. Yeah it sucks to lose something like a Brick house but sucks more to lose all the leanto's so I think that is a very viable tactic.


Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe