collection for PvE

[Ornery]

And the fact everyone jumps in the defense of the PvP premadeath, but no one wants to stand up for the bears and deers, they should have every right of ending someones life as these "killable" players do.

I agree whole-heartedly. Next Update: Nature's Revenge

[darnokpl]

So all you noobs who keep suggesting PVE or newb protection or any other such system have really missed out on a key reason why we do not have a PVE or carebear server. You may think griefing is bad now, but imagine if you had no way to stop a guy from walking into your camp and taking all your **** because you cannot kill him? Ohhh well we will still have claims enabled! Well what happens when that griefer decides to surround your claim with 4 straight line claims to box you in? Murder and criminal acts are both the problem and the solution in this current world. Stop complaining when someone kills you, you can very easily quit the game, or you could man up and kill those bastards right back.

You can't, you need to make space between claims! And murder wouldn't help you get out of your box-claim-trap

[Kurundo]

You can't, you need to make space between claims! And murder wouldn't help you get out of your box-claim-trap

Well, I'm just saying that if I were a griefer/troll/whatever I would go right to the PvE server where people are more likely to rage and unable to do anything to stop my trolling spree.

[MagicManICT]

I think there's a lot of assumptions going on here.

1) Paradox is in this to make a large sum of money

2) The devs are in this to make a large sum of money

3) Relating to #2: The devs are creating some "fun" game

There's been a lot of discussion on this in the past. Namely, Paradox staff have come in and said that some of their goals are about experimenting in the game market. Sometimes projects do get pulled because they can't sustain themselves. However, if a project can sustain itself and pay its bills, why shut it down or change it.

The devs, on the other hand, I think are doing this so they can make a living after college. I believe they care wholeheartedly about their game and community, don't get me wrong, but if money wasn't an issue for them, they'd have just stuck to HnH; or, if a way to make it commercial would have been feasible, that might have been an option. (Seems like I read something about this from jorb or loftar at one point, but I don't recall the statements, so I don't know if the option was there or not, or if they were even willing to take their indie game and add commercial value to it. I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth here, and I don't have access to the kind of information such as contracts and financial deals other than what jorb or loftar have shared publicly or privately with the community.)

To Seatribe, and to anyone that has made a game like this from what I've seen, it is all about the social experiments. How do societies come together? What do people do when faced with confrontation? I believe it was one of the driving factors behind EVE, I know it's been one of the driving factors behind HnH (and by association, Salem), and many other sandbox MMOs. Richard Garriott (sp?) I believe spoke on it a lot about Ultima (morals, etc. in gameplay) and Ultima Online and then later Tabula Rasa. In games like this, you have to be a "good enough" player to just survive. The penalties are usually harsh. Even without concepts such as permadeath, you have your "personal space" to lose, and can face your online organizations getting torn up and driven out by superior forces. It's extremely hard to be a new gamer (or at least new to the genre) and not get overwhelmed. There is no space that there isn't competition for.

On the other hand, you have developers that are trying to create "a game". Look at Warcraft and many of its clones. (I won't include EQ here as I believe originally it was as much about the conflict between "good" and "evil" to start off with, but that took a major nerfing as the game developed.) In Warcraft, you have many possible goals from social and economic to competitive gameplay (PvE raid tiers, battleground, arena). In games like this, it's purely about who's the better player. There is no real penalty other than shame. Some people don't even bother to compete. They just hang out in City X and chat all day.

Now, before ranting about how this game needs change, go out and do some homework. Read up what's been post here, on Paradox Plaza, and on havenandhearth.com before making too many more assumptions about what the goal of the devs and publisher are or should be.

[ysbryd]

I have to admit, I am a care bear, but would I change the permadeath?

No

In fact I would extend it to animals too.
Life is dangerous.
Think about your decisions.
Dont take risks.
Dont just walk up and say hi.
Think. Consider. Weigh up the odds, the pros and cons, protect yourself.
This game without the risk? No thank you, thats part of what makes it so good.
The frisson of fear... that actually means something.
And all you lose really is a couple of weeks. Noobs have only been playing a couple of weeks, established players can grind the stats cos they have infrastructure.
Without risk this game loses its edge.
I died a lot in Haven, where the animals could kill you too. It makes you more careful, but yeah, pick yourself up, dust yourself down, start all over again.

[Ornery]

I have to admit, I am a care bear, but would I change the permadeath?

No

In fact I would extend it to animals too.
Life is dangerous.
Think about your decisions.
Dont take risks.
Dont just walk up and say hi.
Think. Consider. Weigh up the odds, the pros and cons, protect yourself.
This game without the risk? No thank you, thats part of what makes it so good.
The frisson of fear... that actually means something.
And all you lose really is a couple of weeks. Noobs have only been playing a couple of weeks, established players can grind the stats cos they have infrastructure.
Without risk this game loses its edge.
I died a lot in Haven, where the animals could kill you too. It makes you more careful, but yeah, pick yourself up, dust yourself down, start all over again.

This guy gets it

[Mienja]

Im sure there will be incentives for the "top guns" to go to the darkness and stay there. The rest uf us will then be raided occasionally, but the "great guys" will focus on the darkness. As I stated in another thread one could implement loss of humours for players over a certain humour threshold when in civilized areas. Another way of making radiers stick to darkness would be to make them outlaws if they murder anyone and forcing them to be in darkness, otherwise their humours will drain when in civilized lands.

Completely agree that would go a long way to still offering the raiders their choice of ways to have fun but also have consequences for breaking the law and opting to be criminals AND give the peaceful players a bit of an even break as they would be "possibly" raided less often.

[Dallane]

It wouldn't stop or change anything

[ysbryd]

stuff

This guy gets it

*sigh.. this guy is still a girl....

IM FEMALE /end rant

[Ornery]

This girl gets it