Lucerne

[Darwoth]

lol hay is infinitely easier to come by then it was before, anyone complaining at this juncture needs to stfu and go install warcraft.

[Feone]

lol hay is infinitely easier to come by then it was before, anyone complaining at this juncture needs to stfu and go install warcraft.

The difficulty is not an issue.
I just think it's a pitty that farming for it is less effective than foraging. Could use a tweak, imo.

[Darwoth]

gardening and farming are pretty much the same thing atm though, it takes about 4 seconds to prepare a pot and plant a grass in it. which is worth 3 hay. can port to boston and load up on 24 hay off the ground in 3 - 4 minutes or so, this works out to 15 minutes total time investment to cap influence on a field at 2k, do this twice and you have a max t3 field which cant even be destroyed now without bringing a bunch of salt.

30 minute time investment for a maxed field that can no longer be easily destroyed seems fair to me.

i understand what you mean with regard to hay fields etc, but personally i do not see a way to do that without in turn making it even easier to have end game fields. maybe if wheat fields were buffed to give 2 hay per ear of wheat?

not sure what the higher tiers of cereal give now, have not tested it since it was adjusted.

[Feone]

Maybe cereal (or a new crop) could be harvested and left on the field to act as a higher efficiency hay source in return for taking a bit longer than the haypile itself.

Making hay from grass would have to become slightly tougher to compensate. Maybe 2 grass per hay.

[JohnCarver]

gardening and farming are pretty much the same thing atm though, it takes about 4 seconds to prepare a pot and plant a grass in it. which is worth 3 hay. can port to boston and load up on 24 hay off the ground in 3 - 4 minutes or so, this works out to 15 minutes total time investment to cap influence on a field at 2k, do this twice and you have a max t3 field which cant even be destroyed now without bringing a bunch of salt.

I agree with Darwoth on this point. When tiering fields it seemed like a minimal investment. As for different professions being required that was a bit of the point. The same reason Rose otto (Alchemy) is being used for Fine Leathers (Hideworking).

[Potjeh]

I'm not saying it's hard, just boring.

[Procne]

I'm not saying it's hard, just boring.

Then don't do it. Are you on some race?
I always thought dev's (both jorb's and current ones) intention was to have hay spamming being an option for the more... resourceful people to speed up the process. While more casual players could do it slower with less hay. Diminishing returns and all that. If it's boring then just slow down and do it more casual way.

If the general opinion was that it's boring and it "forces" people (by making it mandatory to have tiered fields asap) to do stuff they don't want then it might need some rebalancing. By making the gap between spamming hay, and not, smaller for example. I don't think it's needed though.

[nonsonogiucas]

If the general opinion was that it's boring and it "forces" people (by making it mandatory to have tiered fields asap) to do stuff they don't want then it might need some rebalancing. By making the gap between spamming hay, and not, smaller for example. I don't think it's needed though.

I suspect that the introduction of player (or town) owned stalls, allowing everyone to quickly trade what they produce for anything they don't, has the potential of radically change the perception of what people belive they have to craft (...and what they can avoid to).

If in my current game I happened to need just a couple pieces of egyptian cotton and just in that occasion, I don't think I would tier a field, I would just go to the nearest stall, sell whatever I could sell and buy what I needed. And if the price was good enough I would even consider sticking to just what isn't boring for me and sell just those products in exchange for everything else.

If that is what we want to happen, wouldn't it be a bit pointless to try and balance material costs now?
Also, if we made everything perfectly doable (even if not simple) for everyone, would we then trade for stuff at all in the future?
For me, I would much rather be forced to trade than to produce eveything by myself.

[Procne]

If the general opinion was that it's boring and it "forces" people (by making it mandatory to have tiered fields asap) to do stuff they don't want then it might need some rebalancing. By making the gap between spamming hay, and not, smaller for example. I don't think it's needed though.

I suspect that the introduction of player (or town) owned stalls, allowing everyone to quickly trade what they produce for anything they don't, has the potential of radically change the perception of what people belive they have to craft (...and what they can avoid to).

If in my current game I happened to need just a couple pieces of egyptian cotton and just in that occasion, I don't think I would tier a field, I would just go to the nearest stall, sell whatever I could sell and buy what I needed. And if the price was good enough I would even consider sticking to just what isn't boring for me and sell just those products in exchange for everything else.

If that is what we want to happen, wouldn't it be a bit pointless to try and balance material costs now?
Also, if we made everything perfectly doable (even if not simple) for everyone, would we then trade for stuff at all in the future?
For me, I would much rather be forced to trade than to produce eveything by myself.

That's what I would like as well, but there is strong opposition against easy trade. If anything, many people would like to make trading require even more effort (no stalls, no trading via Boston) and be more dangeours (easier to scam, steal goods from a trader). People prefer trading out of necessity instead of trading out of convenience

[nonsonogiucas]

People prefer trading out of necessity instead of trading out of convenience

Allow me to point out that some people went on playing Salem when (some say) it was actually getting worse and there was no hope of new devs pouring some love in it... However broken a game is there will always be people that like it that way. Doesn't mean it is the best choice though...