How would the community like the Devs to handle bug abuse?

[Dallane]

Personally, I'm more concerned about secret clients some have that are extremely unfair (like tracking not 1x1 crops)

You have no idea

[Nixman]

I think the first step is for Paradox to ensure there is a policy in place so that players are aware of what is and is not allowed. That policy should state that bug abuse is not allowed and can lead to a revocation of their accounts. This ensures there is no backlash from players stating 'I didnt know I wasn't allowed to exploit bugs blah blah'. There is a good reason why pretty much every single gaming company on the planet has something like this in place.

Second, due to limited resources, and which has also been employed by many other gaming companies, is to offer incentives for reporting exploits.

Third would be to start an ingame volunteer GM service where players can directly report possible exploits for said GM to investigate and if required, flag the exploits and the players using them for further moderation to a trusted GM leader/employee to take action upon.

Until its made clear that exploiting bugs can result in consequences, they will be abused relentlessly which only serves to prevent potential players from trying the game, or encouraging existing players to leave, especially if they have been raided/murdered due to said exploits.

If we want some kind of ingame representation of this, a public execution of exploiters in the town square is something I would personally enjoy, if we can also grow tomatoes in our fields and have them rot. (and throwable)

Reality is, there are always going to be bugs and exploits, saying they should all be fixed as the only solution is unrealistic.

[L33LEE]

imho the #1 problem which will always exist is the policy on modded clients, and the smartest of coders always being able to create his own client interface with huge advantages over your regular player even if they do use "basic public modded clients".

It seems to me, that such polices in a game like this cater to the coder gamer giving them advantages for some coding knowledge, and not the general public as a whole. Again, this stance will fall on how the game grows, such a stance on the current allowance of modded clients, will ensure the community will never grow past a point, because it will become "pay for top end modded clients", or you will never get good, because Joe can do x50 more stuff in 50% of the time than Bob can just because of an enhanced client interface.

This game is great, it has a good little community, but this is all it will stay even after a public launch due to these advantages which can be gained and taunted about on the forums freely.

I still feel a much enhanced interface must be made, and the use of modded clients made forbidden with swift bans etc on people who violate the rule, yes the game might lose 50% of the current "vets" but you will be opening your doors more imho to the wider community of the gaming world.

All this being said, what is bug abuse in this current game ? people say chief "bug abused" to raid GH, THIS IS BETA, We are here to bug abuse to the max, and break the game, "testing bug and abusing them is what we are here for", we are test subjects on a suppose test world (which are not getting reset apparently, with "CASH SHOP IN CLOSED BETA SANDBOX GAME WDFLMFAO?????"). This game "NEEDS" a full wipe, i said this months ago also, if the game goes public in its current state it will be a total joke and will crumble (Or at least stay the same with its current vet player base), no new players will join in the games current state, and even if some drastic changes are made, the game will need to open new servers every couple of months, to continue to entice new players to join, otherwise stalemates like on plymouth will happen were 1 faction can do anything they like, and wipe bases off the map with some ease.

Bugs ? There are many bugs because of current mechanics and the current state of development of content in the game which makes abuse, bugs, etc ever so much more common.

Building in mines ? Legit smart use of game mechanics? or abusing a bug ? I remember many discussions when i first joined the game, were many people said its currently a bug to build in mines, and that mines are suppose to be for mining boulders only. I can understand if you can build stampers underground, to enhance your ore production, and use of carts or something to move 4-5 boulders to the stairs faster, but all the other stuff ? Yea like a farm should be growing underground, or your turkeys never seeing the light of day, still i never build in mines, i feel it is an abuse of broken mechanics.

People abusing mechanics should face harsher consequences, because they are aware it is abuse of a broken system part but only in a live public case, NOT IN BETA FOR GOD SAKE !

Anyways, my current view, This topic is worthless in a "beta discussion", we are here to test and break the games mechanics in every way possible, unless seatribes view of a "closed beta testing" is different from its real meaning. This is why we have "CLOSED BETA" to test the game no ?

When this game goes into a commercial launch, rules, regulations and such discussions like this must be made but not by the public, its not the publics choice imho and should not be up for discussion, such matters should be resolved in seatribes and paradox's hand, and if they do want this game to grow and develop beyond its handfull of vets which still want and think salem is HnH 2.0, (I personally never player hnh) things must be changed. Most starting with the use of top notch modded clients, because no exploits and bug abuse revolves around secret custom clients held by a handfull of people just because they have coder knowledge which is ***** if you ask me.

Break the rules ? Simple, Your banned period. This is how any respectable company will react in any situations in one of its products.
Rules must be made more clear, everything is cloak and daggers here, its hearsay, or rules contradict other rules, mods have different opinions and stances on sensitive matters, which in fact they need to be seeing eye to eye and taking a stance as a company. In its current state, salem seems like its run like a kids playground, modded by 18 yr old friends of the devs, were the devs do anything they want, when they want etc etc when they have fun..

Paradox need to decide also, If they want salem to stay in its current state and seem like a college project among friends for the lulz and the vets, or turn it into a real commercial game for the masses, when seatribe / paradox decide which road they take, then and only then rules, bug abuse, such stances on modded clients can be made and decided.

[JinxDevona]

A lot of people keep talking about how we should have a wipe before official release. I do not see how that would do any good. The bugs would still be in place and people would still abuse them. Wiping does nothing, but punish people like me who have no secret client, no bug abuse, and a life in which only a smaller part of each day can be devoted to Salem. I have worked damn hard for what I have and should not be punished for other people's actions. It would seem wiser to open new worlds for the new players while locking the three current worlds to new players. That way we keep what we have, but no new players will be subject to the higher players craziness (except in server switching which at least the higher players can only switch so much back to the other server).

[Dallane]

It would seem wiser to open new worlds for the new players while locking the three current worlds to new players. That way we keep what we have, but no new players will be subject to the higher players craziness (except in server switching which at least the higher players can only switch so much back to the other server).

If the current 3 worlds would be locked to new players and basically destined to die then people would just move to the new servers and you would still be behind.

[JinxDevona]

It would seem wiser to open new worlds for the new players while locking the three current worlds to new players. That way we keep what we have, but no new players will be subject to the higher players craziness (except in server switching which at least the higher players can only switch so much back to the other server).

If the current 3 worlds would be locked to new players and basically destined to die then people would just move to the new servers and you would still be behind.

Good point, see this is why everyone's thoughts together are good.

I still stand firm that there should be NO wipes. If we want this game to be "fair" and that's a defense for a wipe, how is it "fair" to wipe all the innocent people's months worth of hard work?

[Dallane]

I still stand firm that there should be NO wipes. If we want this game to be "fair" and that's a defense for a wipe, how is it "fair" to wipe all the innocent people's months worth of hard work?

Honestly you shouldn't expect for there not to be a wipe in beta.

There should prolly be a wipe but i doubt it would happen. It would put things on a much more even ground tho. I lost months of work from a bug. Not a massive deal. I've got 10x the amount of land and things i had before with very little time spent doing much and that includes making a new crafting character.

[Procne]

I still feel a much enhanced interface must be made, and the use of modded clients made forbidden with swift bans etc on people who violate the rule, yes the game might lose 50% of the current "vets" but you will be opening your doors more imho to the wider community of the gaming world.

Bans won't really help, as it's impossible to tell, in game's current state, who is using mods, from dev's / server point of view. The only thing modded clients do is display data from server in modified way. And no, I'm not trying to say modded clients don't give advantage, because they do.

Anyways, my current view, This topic is worthless in a "beta discussion", we are here to test and break the games mechanics in every way possible, unless seatribes view of a "closed beta testing" is different from its real meaning. This is why we have "CLOSED BETA" to test the game no ?

Well, you pointed it our yourself that there will be no real wipe. So that's one thing different from standard closed beta. Another one is cash shop being up and running.
So, on one hand game has already "launched" as access to it is open and cash shop is up. On the other hand there are bugs and changing mechanics.

Paradox need to decide also, If they want salem to stay in its current state and seem like a college project among friends for the lulz and the vets, or turn it into a real commercial game for the masses, when seatribe / paradox decide which road they take, then and only then rules, bug abuse, such stances on modded clients can be made and decided.

I think it's more of a experiment for Paradox, of a new business model. Hardcore PvP game for very limited audience, which is free to play and cash shop is there purely for cosmetic stuff.

I still stand firm that there should be NO wipes. If we want this game to be "fair" and that's a defense for a wipe, how is it "fair" to wipe all the innocent people's months worth of hard work?

Honestly you shouldn't expect for there not to be a wipe in beta.

There should prolly be a wipe but i doubt it would happen. It would put things on a much more even ground tho. I lost months of work from a bug. Not a massive deal. I've got 10x the amount of land and things i had before with very little time spent doing much and that includes making a new crafting character.

I don't think wipe is necessary, in its standard meaning. Simply disallow travel between current servers and new ones. What happens in beta, stays in beta. Lock new players out of current servers so that they don't have to deal with results of bugs and sudden mechanic changes. Yes, this will make old servers slowly die. Once enough people leaves them THEN you can wipe it.

Actually, you can keep up with this model - when there is critical change in game's mechanics you can apply it to the new servers only and let old ones slowly die and replace them over time

[L33LEE]

I think it's more of a experiment for Paradox, of a new business model. Hardcore PvP game for very limited audience, which is free to play and cash shop is there purely for cosmetic stuff.

This seems to be the case and many people agree on this, just like the roumors of Blizzard using Diablo 3 as a new test engine for a new type of real world auction house.

The problem is, the way Paradox and seatribe speak of this game, and the way they do the interviews, live streams, they act as if this game is for real, and they want it to become something unique in the commercial world and become a big game.

Actions speak louder than words, yet seatribe say almost nothing. No dev blogs, no daily updates and such which should be happening in developing beta projects, from there actions it seems this game is just an experiment, yet when they say the little words they do, they speak volumes as if they want this game to become the next eve.

I don't think wipe is necessary, in its standard meaning. Simply disallow travel between current servers and new ones. What happens in beta, stays in beta. Lock new players out of current servers so that they don't have to deal with results of bugs and sudden mechanic changes. Yes, this will make old servers slowly die. Once enough people leaves them THEN you can wipe it.

Actually, you can keep up with this model - when there is critical change in game's mechanics you can apply it to the new servers only and let old ones slowly die and replace them over time

This is what i am thinking. They do not need to do a full wipe, just when this game goes into commercial launch, they need to lock the current worlds, and keep them for "BETA TESTING ONLY", were current players still have access to them, new content is added to the current servers days / weeks before the commercial servers to "Test the new content" to ensure no bug abuse / broken mechanics are introduced to the live / public servers, like "any normal game has".

Again, people say its only 2 devs, etc, they need to make up there mind, make the game big and throw more money at it, or keep it just as an experiment project which it currently clearly is.

Almost all games has test servers for new content to ensure broken machanics and bugs do not reach the live servers, will this game ever have this ? well i bloody hope so with such cash shop options. This is a major problem, cash shop, no refunds, and the current amount of bugs + seatribes stance on abuse. Its a big ***** no no, and they will have huge warning signs around this game from every website to stay away.

[Procne]

The problem is, the way Paradox and seatribe speak of this game, and the way they do the interviews, live streams, they act as if this game is for real, and they want it to become something unique in the commercial world and become a big game.

I don't think there is any contradiction. Experiment or not, they do want to become a great game. From I have seen Paradox publishes many "experimental" games, and I'm thankful for that. It's good to see some publisher releasing something different than all this EA / Activision / Ubisoft etc. stuff, which in most cases is pretty much the same. I hope it works out for Paradox, but only they know the numbers