Moving and carrying braziers around

[ImpalerWrG]

Problem 8: Braziers can be hidden on sleds, carts, etc. to give an inaccurate perspective of base defenses.

This is the only one I disagree with, the defender being able to whip-out surprise defense capabilities would be rewarding forethought and good base design for the defender, and it puts attacker/defender on a more equal knowledge level as the defender has absolutely no idea what kind of attack he is going to suffer.

Movable Braziers are probably not the way to go about this, an earlier thread on Traps would be much more appropriate way to introduce surprise defenses.

Lastly with regard to Braziers, dropping all materials when destroyed would be a partial solution, defender is saved the metal costs and the attacker can now loot the metal of Braziers they destroy (admittedly metal is so cheap it's unlikely to be worth it).

[JohnCarver]

Nobody needs a solution because nobody 'should' be destroying their braziers. More Braziers is always better in the new system.

[lachlaan]

Nobody needs a solution because nobody 'should' be destroying their braziers. More Braziers is always better in the new system.

I hope I'm misunderstanding, because this basically sounds like ye olde system of "Wooooo more braziers!".

I'll wait for you to give out more info (feel free to do that right now if you can), but let me just state my heaps and heaps of concern over how unfun it'd be to have to maximize defenses against ever-persistant raiders by just digging the planet hollow to make braziers. It would look ugly, it would be tedious, it wouldn't promote the "good base design" versus "bad base design" you mentioned earlier. So wtb clarification, paying 1 silver coin.

[JohnCarver]

I hope I'm misunderstanding, because this basically sounds like ye olde system of "Wooooo more braziers!".

New System > Old System > Current System


You'll see a lot of steps that looks like old system on the way to the new system. Being penalized for building more braziers never sat right. Players who invest more in their defenses should and will be better protected than those who do not.

[Dallane]

I hope I'm misunderstanding, because this basically sounds like ye olde system of "Wooooo more braziers!".

New System > Old System > Current System


You'll see a lot of steps that looks like old system on the way to the new system. Being penalized for building more braziers never sat right. Players who invest more in their defenses should and will be better protected than those who do not.

Great brazier walls return.

[Feone]

I hope I'm misunderstanding, because this basically sounds like ye olde system of "Wooooo more braziers!".

New System > Old System > Current System


You'll see a lot of steps that looks like old system on the way to the new system. Being penalized for building more braziers never sat right. Players who invest more in their defenses should and will be better protected than those who do not.

I'd prefer to see smart building and planning over a spam as much as possible grind system.
In this new system (and I guess every step along the way)I hope it won't turn into small/medium amount of defenses = ignorable, high amount = annoying, extreme amount = invincible. Which is kind of a result if spamming won't come with some sort of diminished returns. Is there anything you can tell about the planning for that?

[JohnCarver]

I'd prefer to see smart building and planning over a spam as much as possible grind system.
In this new system (and I guess every step along the way)I hope it won't turn into small/medium amount of defenses = ignorable, high amount = annoying, extreme amount = invincible. Which is kind of a result if spamming won't come with some sort of diminished returns. Is there anything you can tell about the planning for that?

We aim to have the ammo in structures matter. Thus all the defenses in the world won't matter if you cannot keep them filled. Your argument against the volume of effort players invest into their defensive structures not being proportional against the efficiency of their defense is not something we share though. As with everything in Salem, the harder and more effort you put into something, the better it is. Defenses will be no different.

I respect that many players enjoyed these last 6 months of 'I drop and make one Brazier and I am safe forever'. Unfortunately, this is not our vision for Salem, and players will either learn to place an appropriate amount of resources into defending their base, or see their base penetrated and their valuables stolen.

[ImpalerWrG]

Players who invest more in their defenses should and will be better protected than those who do not.

No disagreement on the principle, but I'd prefer to go into into higher tiers of more complex and interactive forms of base defense (not just a stronger wall or a higher damage Brazier) as I max-out/soft-cap-out each layer. Things like Traps, guard dogs, witchcraft??? Just grinding out (or through) more of the same defense type gets dull. I don't think the existing elements (stationary walls, stationary towers) can bare the weight of the whole defense system on their own, so any balance achieved with them alone can't really endure.

Thus all the defenses in the world won't matter if you cannot keep them filled.

Translation

All your previous Grind wont matter if you cant Grind more Grind to keep your previous Grindings filled

[JohnCarver]

We intend to add unique static defenses of several types to 'spice up' the way defense works. As well as of course cannons and other ways to summon and kill criminals. I anticipate the landscape will be much different and taking any part of the existing or previous systems as 'the way it is or will be' won't help much.

We can't finish out our design here until we see just how fast players are replaced in the new gluttony system. Our PVP balance does boil down to an old eve saying we have 'changed' to fit here.

"Do not leave scents on a character who is not prepared to die".

While I respect that some will take issue to the death sentence that is leaving scents, and the constant ebb and flow of 'crime alts', we consider it a solid step in the right direction and don't dislike the idea that those who wish to focus on 'war' in Salem are playing a different game altogether where they are calculating how fast they can get their heirs back on their feet.

[lachlaan]

Okay, paint project finished. Let me present you with my concern in artistic, copy pastey form.

Does that look like something you'd want to see in every other base, and more importantly something you want to support, encourage, and even force on players?

Yes, I realize that it wouldn't look like that, it'd need spacing to fuel, just like you said, but it would still be brazier spam. And while effort should be rewarded, based on that alone you just threw "good vs bad" base design out the window. I don't want to only have to worry about wether i can fuel my 300 braziers, and if that's the only worry you want us to have then I see a huge discrepancy between the creativity that went into the other content versus what we imagine the brazier change to become.