Salem Economy, the now and the future.

[DangerousLee]

In this thread I will expose some general thoughts I have about how the economy and the trade systems could be improved. In future threads, other aspects such as purity of foragable items (http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3028), professions, skills, unique items will be addressed. I just want to point out that the various ideas I am proposing are elaborated in such a way as to work together coherently. They form a whole that I think would solve many issues I think the game is suffering or will suffer in a near future.

Some other players have already mentionned some potential issues regarding the economy system (http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=957, http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2505, http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=698). Others have proposed nice ideas to improve community creating incentives (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1738).

I will discuss some observation of how the economy works at the moment and the potential problems I anticipate with the current system.

Here is a short list of observations:
- Players make deals essentially in Boston.
- The only way of increasing the money supply of silver is by selling (export) furs, savage charms, cricket teams, etc at the local NPC stall. Also one can get more silver by purchasing it with real money and very little silver is sometimes found in stumps.
- The money (silver) drains are essentially, players that quit without playing again with silver on them, upkeep of claims/stalls, and buying from the NPC stalls.
- Towns are mostly an upgraded pClaim as I see it and it does not seem to allow for a lot of people to gather there and do meaningful trade or other activities one cannot do on a pClaim.
- No ressources are flowing in the system from the areas around Boston toward Boston or other towns (because teleport).
- No need for extra towns to trade and no need for roads either. (Important aspect of a working economy is transport)
- Supply and demand is absent in most aspect of the game. Players live in autarky (means they are self-sufficient).

Players have to deal at Boston for the moment because there is no alternative means of transportation that is fast enough to carry goods from one place to another efficiently (The teleport function is incompatible with a developped economy, in fact it is the teleportation of goods that is the problem in this case. Limit or restricting the teleport to "empty inventory" would do the trick without removing teleport altogether). The current money system is flawed for many reasons. The most important one being that silver is mostly useless in itself. People don't particularly need it, it is only at the beginning of the game that it is really needed. Now, if nobody cares about money, you will never see any meaningful money flowing anywhere, hence no economy. The system that is currently implemented creates just that, players are interested in playing first to discover the game, but they soon find that the game lacks elements to favour community creation and interactions. Salem being a crafting MMO, the next logical step is that you would want the crafted items be traded and integrated in a grand scheme of economics. As of now this later aspect is rather disapointing to say the least.

I would like to see something like a colony going on, with private claims used to produce material that would then be sold to the marketplaces in player-run towns. The later would tax the trade, stalls, claims nearby owned by other players, and use the money to grow further, pay higher upkeep by having high-end building that provide services which players would look for (mills, forge, etc.) thus increasing the traffic and earning more money to the town. (Virtuous circle) Towns would not be a "better" pclaim, but would rather be a place of trade and interactions between players. Cities that manage to make a surplus of money would naturally stay and the less succesfull ones would have to disappear overtime (just by the economy, players owning those would have to put their money into it for it to survive compared to a successful one where the money is flowing and everything is paid for without extra input from the owners). I would like an economy that is essentially done between players and that the Boston import/export only acts as a money supply/drain to regulate the flow of silver on the whole map (Prices of import/export could be varied in that regard). Ressources would flow from inland towards Boston for export in exchange of money.

The key here is to make distances meaningful for trade to exist. Now the nice idea is that if you could have more possible exports at Boston to earn silver, goods from inland would have an incentive to move toward Boston for export (with the risk that accompanies it (raiders). Tadam! Profession merchant is just created.). If you combine this with the idea of purity of forageable items you now have something going (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3028). Ex: Higher purity beaver furs would need to travel across the land to be sold at Boston (Higher purity furs would sell for higher price in this model). Beavers killed in the Boston area and nearby would likely have less purity value, thus creating an incentive to get ressources farther inland for money gain.

In order to have some sort of "realistic" economy going, some ingredients are required which are not compatible with some current game features and other features needs to be added for it to become a reality.

I will discuss different aspects of a cure to the problems I and others have identified in various threads:
- Towns, Claims and Economic Activity (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3063)
(Resource gathering, Item crafting and Trading areas)
- Purity System ((Forageables (http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3028) and in Agriculture ()) (Incentive for trade and ressource flow)
- Modified Gluttony system (http://forum.salemgame.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2959&start=20) (For balancing purpose)
- Unique imports (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3064) (Money sink and tool to create a need for money as well as a rivality between competing towns for owning said Uniques)
- Professions and skills (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3057) (Deals with the professions and creating an incentive to cooperate with your neighbors instead of killing them.)

Please read carefully and show some support if you find that the proposed system would be better than the one we have already. If you have better ideas, you are welcome to add them, if you find problems that would arise from the changes proposed, try to find a solution to it or just point it out. I don't think the devs are completely closed to new ideas if the community shows strong support. Why would there be a Ideas & Innovations section if the game cannot be changed and/or improved.

Everything will be added, just be patient. Thanks.

[Potjeh]

I think you've correctly identified Boston teleport as the core problem. I've always felt the same way, and I've campaigned to have it removed for almost two years but sadly it seems the devs are drawing a line here and removing it is not an option under any circumstances And with Boston teleport in place, all the other stuff you talked about simply falls apart.

[Procne]

You made observations, wrote wall of text, but I'm still missing the point - what is wrong with the current system, and why/how the changes proposed would make it better.

[Procne]

I think you've correctly identified Boston teleport as the core problem. I've always felt the same way, and I've campaigned to have it removed for almost two years but sadly it seems the devs are drawing a line here and removing it is not an option under any circumstances And with Boston teleport in place, all the other stuff you talked about simply falls apart.

Removing Boston teleport would basically kill 95% of all trade done. How is that a solution to anything?

[Potjeh]

Boston is a crutch that's stopping real trade from developing, with roads and wagons and player shops and all that good stuff.

[Procne]

Boston is a crutch that's stopping real trade from developing, with roads and wagons and player shops and all that good stuff.

Let's assume we get roads, wagons and shops, but no Boston teleport. What will people trade then?
Surely not bulk goods or low value goods like hay, lime, coal, foragables, meats or humus.

[Potjeh]

I see no reason they won't be trading the same things they do now, I expect wagons to have huuuge capacity. Of course, there isn't really that much of a need for trade right now, but that's a separate issue.

[Procne]

I see no reason they won't be trading the same things they do now, I expect wagons to have huuuge capacity. Of course, there isn't really that much of a need for trade right now, but that's a separate issue.

I can't see them trading low values goods if they had to run for 15-30 minutes to deliver them. Or use wagons, which would probably cost 10x more than goods themselves. Add to it the risk factor. I can already see griefers like chief camping outside trade hubs and intercepting all merchants. A guy in a wagon would be as easy prey as some afk-er. Escort for the wagon you say? Even more effort needed to conduct the trade.

It would simply be easier, faster and safer to make such items yourself than to buy them.

The only reason trading in H&H worked was because of the teleports between villages.

[Potjeh]

You wouldn't be transporting those goods between hubs on a regular basis. A newbie would sell hay in their nearest hub, and a developed farmer would buy it there, via automated player shops that can both sell and buy goods. Only when large price differences develop between hubs would the caravans come into play.

[darnokpl]

You wouldn't be transporting those goods between hubs on a regular basis. A newbie would sell hay in their nearest hub, and a developed farmer would buy it there, via automated player shops that can both sell and buy goods. Only when large price differences develop between hubs would the caravans come into play.

Hub = capital city on another server, problem solved