How would the community like the Devs to handle bug abuse?

[_Gunnar]

in answer to the thread: i think that once a bug is reported you are free to abuse it as much as you like.
i would like the devs to handle bugs proactively, fixing them if they are reported - since the 1x1 farms, mine farms, house farms, etc have been around for so long and are common knowledge, I dont think anyone should be mad at anyone using them at all.

also bug raids are hilarious drama - large factions can store up bugs and then report then use straight after, meaning they are pretty much like nukes

MAY THE BEST BAGOUSER WIN!

[L33LEE]

I agree for hnh 2.0 excellent suggestion!

Also anyone complaining about 1x1 mods really needs to wake up and get a clue. Sorry but the modification isn't the problem at all. Its the fact that fields only use up 1 space. You can have exploited fields using CTL + L in enders. It won't look good but thats how we did it b4 fancy clients. This was reported in prewipe/alpha and still isn't fixed.

This is a major problem then. Still using the bugs reported, that says something about the nature of the player, dishonest through and through, you will always abuse any bug you can for personal gain. People like That normally get banned from main stream games fast, hence they troll around in games like salem.

We found the bug of "over lapping fields" months and months ago also, it was already reported, yet we did not go out of our way to modify clients to enhance this "bug" for our own ABUSE, we are still playing the game in a legit yet exploring for bugs and reporting them as thus.

If this game is not having any wipe, they need to bring the ban hammer down on anyone abusing such mechanics as from what i mentioned it gives serious advantages, this is only IF they place the current servers into a commercial live audiance, which imho is the worse idea ever. The current servers need to either be fully locked and used for beta testing only, or fully wiped, i cannot see how such worlds will last in a commercial launch.

FYI, i still have several fields over lapping yet never use them, in hopes one day they will be vanished, and i know all over lapping fields have been nuked.

PS. Happy christmas dallane / All

[L33LEE]

Well now retri is done derailing lets get back on topic.

Its shown from past patches that bugs do not get fixed until PvP factions abuse it with one another. Only way things get fixed is when we go crazy with abuse. Look at every patch and its either CoD MM or GH getting a bug fixed from playing this game on a higher level then most people.

and this is one of the main reasons the game in its current state, and the stance taken by devs on bugs will never work in a commercial launch.

You cannot ban people for abusing bugs in a closed beta, its just shocking such things are even mentioned, its why we are here. Serious overhauls on how things are done are needed imho, yet i see the problem being financial on seatribes side. Most of the problems we currently encounter are related to bugs not being fixed, which is because they are still developing game content, lack of man power, down to low budget i assume.

Once content has be finished for the most part, they need to debugg the whole game, get it 99% working, then introduce the set of rules for the game, which is allowed and which is not, true stances on modded clients (This could change) etc, then you are free to start banning people for bug abusing.

The game in its current state is one of the most weirdest and mind boggling i have ever seen. beta servers which will be live public servers, without a reset, after bug abuse from beta testing has occurred with cash shop implemented and no wipe ? Its just beyond comprehension as a beta tester for alot of games. I can fully understand if this game has another 12 months in beta, but from what we are told, its due to be public live commercial very shortly and that alone troubles me.

#1 Get the content into the game, Then you can add / expand later like any normal game
#2 Debug the whole game, fix it, make it tight
#3 Introduce the rules on bug abuse so people understand the rules clearly and what is / is not bug abuse.
#4 Go into commercial launch (should be at least 6 months away)
#5 Expand the game, ban as required, enjoy and huge successful game

[MagicManICT]

I think the whole thing with this is that it is going to be a small niche community that doesn't need tons and tons of money thrown at it. From what moo said seatribe has a killer contract atm. I don't think they have any real deadlines from how everything was said.

I don't have any more information on this than anyone else, and I've come to the same conclusion, at least as long as Seatribe keeps meeting Paradox on what is seen as "needed" or "desired" in a timely manner and are keeping development rolling. The fact that they've already opened a cash shop (and looks to have a decent amount rolling in every month since the opening) decreases the likelyhood that any plugs will get pulled, either.

Having this overall discussion public in a way saddens me a bit. It means that a policy, be it from a customer service or development perspective, has failed. It was a nice experiment and all, but I like the way _Gunnar put it. It's like superpowers storing up NBC weapons and dropping them on their enemies all at once. Being a game, and the hardcore players most of the factions that do this are, fewer people quit over it, but it creates a huge mess to clean up, both for the players and for the devs in trying to sort out the bugs.

Yes, there are plenty of people out there that are honest enough to be a GM and play at the same time. I've done it for years. You don't know how easy it is to kick a guy out of a card tournament and it look legit after you lost another big tourney against said player the previous month. Most card players I know that have remained successful at tournament officials have had to face this. Does there need to be rules in place for your officials? Yes, most definitely. There also needs to be supervisors that aren't involved to make sure subordinates are doing the job properly and not cheating.

As far as publicly stating goals... not to be rude, but... yeah, right. Like we're going to see those things as players. I think if there's a "feel" of the game being "rushed", it's coming from Paradox, not the devs themselves. I myself figured the game would probably be coming out about now, but that was before a few major changes were needed that took a few months each to develop and debug. These things come up in game development. The only thing you can do is change up your goals and keep on programming. I will say that Toady1 has a pretty good way of doing it with the "future of the fortress" for Dwarf Fortress. However, that's a completely independent project and has another few years in development (at least a few). I don't see that working for a commercially published game with a timeline of only 2-3 years.

[fox]

u know

[molnhunden]

Im used to those games with hard rules like abusing a bug get a 30 ish day ban,whatever gained removed from game.
abusing a ""serious"" gamebreaking bug permabanned account.
But this is in beta so it should not be any serious punishment i think.
IF Gamebreaking or big bugs that give a big advantage over others are free to use aslong as u reported it, it may be a bad idea.
some bugs are not that easy to fix with a magic wand yelling some weird words and will take a long time to fix and even if its beta it needs to be fun for players to play/test the game etc.
Im torn apart in this so in my eyes, using small bugs that does not really gain any big advantage or affect other players may be ok to use.
Bigger gamebreaking bugs,glitches a simple No.
If i find a bug that lets me become the mayor of a town by using the snorky emote while in run mode and i report it and then use it to kill ppl or destroy their towns i should be punished and not lightly either but thats just my opinion.....

[GeneralButthurt]

The fact that they've already opened the cash shop (and looks to have a decent amount rolling in every month since the opening) decreases the likelyhood that any plugs will get pulled, either.

I can see how the cash shop posses a problem, but what would be the harm in reembursing the items (not actual money) to players who have purchased from the shop if they wanted to wipe, by items i mean the shop item itself ?

they could give credit to the email address provided on billing. or some fraction of the equivalance.

[MagicManICT]

I can see how the cash shop posses a problem, but what would be the harm in reembursing the items (not actual money) to players who have purchased from the shop if they wanted to wipe, by items i mean the shop item itself ?

I'm going to say this with semi-officially as I don't want it to be taken as the exact terms. IF there is to be a wipe (again, none are expected), then there should be silver or item reimbursements as necessary. However, a server wipe is not the same as "getting the plug pulled" which means the game is getting shut down for good. That's what the last few posts has been in reference to.

[Niding2]

Well, that depends if it's a bug or feature.

That said, once out of beta, deliberate and repeated abuse of bugs in a way that gives the exploiters a definite, unintended game advantage should result in some sort of disciplinary action. Wiped account of toons or salted claims or something like that. Money spent in the game cash shop doesn't give the player a carte blanche to go against the spirit of the game, whatever the devs put into that definition, and so the rules would be for all.

However, this being a beta, finding and using bugs is also a part of improving the game before gold. Optimally, loftar would automatically know of the bugs and then fix the bugs, but since a lot of beta testers are more likely to keep the bug "secrets" to themselves to exploit at their own leasure, the game needs two things - incentive to reporting bugs, and method of reporting bugs.

For method, the game currently has the bug forum here (as well as direct IRC contact? I don't know, I don't use IRC). In addition, I'd suggest a client messaging system, allowing the player to file a bug report with a basic description of what appears bugged. Of course, the obvious problem with this, is spam - players wanting to troll / talk to / whatever with the devs, as well as mutiple reports of the same bug / repeat of old bugs / player confusion causing excessive reports and so on. With a two-man development team, I'm not sure such a messaging system would be doable on their side, even with the rather limited number of active beta testers.

That said, incentive. H&H had this fun thing that if some people reported some spectacular bug, they'd get a wolf cloak or other fun stuff. Sure, JordanColes and his band of merry lads has gotten his church, and the Chief his headdress, although I don't know if that's in the tradition of bug reporting or just for forum entertainment / community interest. Fun things such as these, however, could work as incentives, maybe.

Anyhow, yea. A simple way of reporting bugs, a carrot attatched to it, merciless punishment of abusing.