Light vs Darkness / encouraging development of civilization

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Re: Light vs Darkness / encouraging development of civilizat

Postby Darwoth » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:18 pm

Potjeh wrote:
Finally, the size of the settlement should determine the availability of defences. Stone fences and braziers for hermits, palisades and towers for towns, and city walls and cannon towers for cities.

The overall idea is to encourage the top tier players to compete to attract settlers.



sounds absolutely horrible, in fact easily one of if not the worst idea i have seen posted here. despite popular belief not everybody likes to huddle together into a gaggle of zerglings.
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Re: Light vs Darkness / encouraging development of civilizat

Postby Hardsun » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:05 pm

+1 to OP. We need ingame mechanics forcing socializing and player interaction, yet keep possibility open to hermits with some penalties.
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Re: Light vs Darkness / encouraging development of civilizat

Postby jwhitehorn » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:02 am

Darwoth wrote:
sounds absolutely horrible, in fact easily one of if not the worst idea i have seen posted here. despite popular belief not everybody likes to huddle together into a gaggle of zerglings.


I agree. If the mayor or leader of a group can't turn working bodies into assets then it definitely isn't the dev's job to hardcode benefits to keeping a breathing body around you. All this will do is encourage tons of AFK alts and Alt Cities to create these artificial effects.

The dev's once talked about building churches which would mitigate effects of darkness etc. etc. I thought that was a great idea and hope thats the direction they continue to push. Also building churches around a base in the darkness could be a viable seiging mechanic that would add a lot of dynamics to the game. Now you have the defenders forced to go on offense to take down enemy churches or else the effects of being in the darkness will soon be mitigated. Gives both parties enough time to have a battle of wits and manpower without hardcoding carebear rules into the game.

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Re: Light vs Darkness / encouraging development of civilizat

Postby Potjeh » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:24 am

Guys, at least show the common courtesy of reading the idea before rejecting it.

As stated in the original post, player activity would be the relevant variable rather than a simple body count. I listed consumption of resources, crafting of stuff and planting of field as examples of activity. But now that I think of it, pretty much every activity can be boiled down to consumption of resources, so we could just track that. So yeah, the examples of player numbers are given for average players. If you play efficiently 16 hours a day you'll be burning through a lot more resources, so you may raise as much light as a dozen casuals. There is the potential problem of botting easy resources to immediately consume them (chop log -> split -> study shaving), but I think that can be resolved with an invariance penalty (on an area level rather than per character, so alts aren't encouraged). Another thing that could potentially be used is various cultural events, such as holding masses and balls, but tbh I haven't played MMOs with these that much so I can't really tell if these things would be fun or just tedious.

I also never said that activity should be the only variable, it's supposed to be a compound measure of activity and building presence. The way I imagine it, the buildings would determine the potential light, and activity would fill up this potential. All buildings would raise the light, but not all equally. I can see a niche here for decorative constructions, like flower gardens, fountains, statues, mausoleums, fancy pavement etc. Anyway, the point is to avoid making light level determined by nothing but settlement age (because building spam just takes time), and to make it possible for ghost towns to return to darkness on their own. IMO getting the buildings should still be the harder part of pushing light, but this would definitely be a tricky thing to balance.

Having darkness as the preferred state and using churches solely for offensive purposes rubs me all kinds of wrong. We're supposed to be bringing the light of the Empire into the uncivilized corners of the world. I know, fluff is never a good reason on it's own, but I think that making darkness a bad thing and having a challenge of pushing it back would provide for more engaging gameplay than simply having the default state of the world be the best one.

As for turning bodies into assets, that's still thinking within the current social order. The idea here is to move away from small towns populated with a single tightly knit clan to big towns (I'm envisioning hundreds, or maybe even thousands of inhabitants if the servers can handle that) where recruitment is a lot more open, and there are multiple factions with different agendas in a single town (ie like RL towns).
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Re: Light vs Darkness / encouraging development of civilizat

Postby ElCapitan1701 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:49 am

I like the idea.
1) Maybe "filling" up the light shouldn`t be done by some game mechanics, but just by the settlers in that area...like keeping a fire burning. So you don`t need to balance some building vs. activitiy output but just sum up the output of all fireplaces burning in an area. It also fits more into the idea of Salem consuming things to get new one. If player activity is high, there will be more fireplaces...
2) The idea would bring Salem one step into the right direction but it needs a second thing: trade. Just don`t make players port to Boston but to the nearest high-tier-city. Then we will get trade.
3) Make those high-tier-cities supply centers to any darkness-settlement. It should be very hard to produce some things like crops in darkness so that would be a good which need to be traded with the light city. The darkness should also get some benefits, f.e. some exlusive raw materials which would be traded with the cities in return....so we would get trade, and trade will bring us the need to some infrastructere like roads etc.
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