Salem

The rolling pin does increase the speed for:
Pie Dough

The rolling pin does not increase the speed for:
Oakworth Tart Dough
Crescent Croissant Dough
Ryebread Dough

It would be nice if it would also increase the speed for other baking (making pies, etc - the animation is the rolling pin!) but I'd understand if that is not intended.

I think all recipes that require using baking table to make should also get an increase from the rolling pin. It would make sense.

intended

The plan seems to be to make one annoying hole in each of the professions and to make special items that fill that hole and nothing else.

DarkNacht wrote:The plan seems to be to make one annoying hole in each of the professions and to make special items that fill that hole and nothing else.

This. Although I would say the plan was for players to not feel like they had to have the store-bought tools to be successful at their trade. Only receive a bonus to one small part of it.

Alternatively we can make the store-bought tools OP for all things profession related but I feel that would make players feel like they were being 'forced' to buy store-bought tools.

JohnCarver wrote:

DarkNacht wrote:The plan seems to be to make one annoying hole in each of the professions and to make special items that fill that hole and nothing else.

This. Although I would say the plan was for players to not feel like they had to have the store-bought tools to be successful at their trade. Only receive a bonus to one small part of it.

Alternatively we can make the store-bought tools OP for all things profession related but I feel that would make players feel like they were being 'forced' to buy store-bought tools.

Making a hole that your profession bonus does not work for feels a lot like being strongly prodded to buy the items, why not just have store bought items have a moderate multiplicative bonus to your speed. If a decent set made you work at 1.4x speed and a store item also boosted your work speed 1.4x you could use the store item as a replacement for clothing or use it to boost your work speed up to 1.96x. Which would be enough to definitively make it worth buying if you did that type of work a lot but would not make people feel like there was a part of their profession that they could not advance in with out getting it.

DarkNacht wrote:Making a hole that your profession bonus does not work for feels a lot like being strongly prodded to buy the items, why not just have store bought items have a moderate multiplicative bonus to your speed. If a decent set made you work at 1.4x speed and a store item also boosted your work speed 1.4x you could use the store item as a replacement for clothing or use it to boost your work speed up to 1.96x. Which would be enough to definitively make it worth buying if you did that type of work a lot but would not make people feel like there was a part of their profession that they could not advance in with out getting it.

We originally tried this. The problem was that both the tool AND the civilian sets felt underpowered in their own right. For example there was already a post on this forums that said Woodworking was broken because he 'only' got a 40% speed increase for something like +200 WW. Now can you imagine if you are saying that 500+ (The top) would be 1.4X (40%). This would mean somebody with 100 woodworking would be getting a 10% increase? A noob artifice then giving a less than 1% increase.

There was simply no way to balance the speed we wanted players to get with having 'two' different systems doing the exact same thing to the same action without drastically slowing down the normal speed (non civ artifice, non tool). The next best solution was to have the majority of a professions actions be effected by Civ's and the remaining one to be something for players who either support the game or trade with somebody who supported the game.

So if the top now with artifacts is +500 - make that work across the profession and then make the store tool another +200. That's good enough noobs might buy instead of working on a +140 noob set and still good enough to provide a meaningful bonus to endgame sets too. Yeah +700 might be a little faster than you originally wanted us to be able to have - but hey it can't be all tears all the time.

JohnCarver wrote:We originally tried this. The problem was that both the tool AND the civilian sets felt underpowered in their own right. For example there was already a post on this forums that said Woodworking was broken because he 'only' got a 40% speed increase for something like +200 WW. Now can you imagine if you are saying that 500+ (The top) would be 1.4X (40%). This would mean somebody with 100 woodworking would be getting a 10% increase? A noob artifice then giving a less than 1% increase.

There was simply no way to balance the speed we wanted players to get with having 'two' different systems doing the exact same thing to the same action without drastically slowing down the normal speed (non civ artifice, non tool). The next best solution was to have the majority of a professions actions be effected by Civ's and the remaining one to be something for players who either support the game or trade with somebody who supported the game.

I didn't mean that a top set should only give a 40% increase, I think the current bonuses would be fine if they applied everything in that profession. And around a 40% multiplicative bonus would likely be large enough to encourage people to buy it, and make it worth a good amount in trade, while not making people feel that they had to have it.

RonPaulFTW wrote:So if the top now with artifacts is +500 - make that work across the profession and then make the store tool another +200. That's good enough noobs might buy instead of working on a +140 noob set and still good enough to provide a meaningful bonus to endgame sets too. Yeah +700 might be a little faster than you originally wanted us to be able to have - but hey it can't be all tears all the time.

It would be better if it gave a separate multiplicative bonus, that way both old and new players would feel a good increase from it.

Currently anything higher than a 50% progress meter has no effect as 2 progress ticks is simply 2 progress ticks. Everything between 33% and 50% is irrelevant as it is ALL 3 progress ticks.

For this reason the suggestions you both are making would be impossible to fit into the current '100% Progress' system.

So I could nerf the current civ artifices so that tools push you into the 33-50% progress area and civ artifice can never get you there. Or I could do it as we have planned. I highly doubt anybody wants Civ Artifices nerfed so that they alone cannot reach 33-50% progress WITHOUT the tool.

Please consider the Progress bar when making your claims. Simply saying "make it 20% faster" does not work when that difference is between 50% and 60% on a progress meter (all still 2 ticks).