Task System

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Task System

Postby GigiBecali » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:57 am

Since Salem daily grind gets boring after a while, having a task system would help by giving the player a goal to play daily. I know we have trade orders but they really dont do it for me at all.

The Tasks will be simillar to cravings. There will be tasks for each proficiency and completing it will provide you 1 point in that proficiency.

Proficiency tasks can be daily or having a timer like cravings; the bigger the prof, the more time for another task to appear(Daily tasks seem more attractive imo). Completing 7 or 10 tasks in a row could give you a bigger bonus too.

Tasks will be simple. For example a daily task for Hunting and Hideworking: Kill 5 deer/Tan 10 hides etc., Stocks and Cultivars: Plant 10 fields/ Fertilize fields 25 times etc.

Other deeds can be added per character that can bring bonuses for that specific character. Example of deed:
Plant trees 0/50 - trees you plant grow few hours faster.
Plant trees 0/500 - You can gather 1 more nut/pinecone/duff etc from the trees you plant
etc etc.

What do you guys think about a system like this? I think it would fit Salem nicely. Yes, I know JC isnt here to implement anything but still its good to have ideas.
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Re: Task System

Postby Chrumps » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:40 pm

The problem with strictly defined tasks is sooner or later you hit one that it is not along your playing style and stop bothering about that system. There have to be parallel task paths or at very least an option to change or cancel the task, similar to mason's lodge vs cravings.
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Re: Task System

Postby Methuzelah23 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:48 pm

We already have passive prof gains and a task system with orders, and cravings. At a certain point either you wanna raise up your **** or you don't. It's dumb to provide so much hand holding in a sandbox game.
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Re: Task System

Postby gorniksam » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:01 am

you only 20yo ?
steeloxidex wrote:Lel, this game is ****, you probably all only play it because you have garbage computers that cant play real games.

I am going to go play some real games. LOL scrubs.

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Re: Task System

Postby lachlaan » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:37 pm

No.
It's silly to expect people to organize their day around when a task procs, or make extra fields, leave empty pots and so on so forth in case a task resets to something obscene like plant more fields when fields are done. Same with hunting, i hunt if i need to and having to do miniature tasks would break people's rhythm.
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Re: Task System

Postby Chrumps » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:36 pm

lachlaan wrote:No.
It's silly to expect people to organize their day around when a task procs, or make extra fields, leave empty pots and so on so forth in case a task resets to something obscene like plant more fields when fields are done. Same with hunting, i hunt if i need to and having to do miniature tasks would break people's rhythm.

I disagree. This is probably personal preference since people have different playing styles and different objectives in the game, some people will soon become bored if gameplay becomes repetitive.

Methuzelah23 wrote:It's dumb to provide so much hand holding in a sandbox game.

Holding hand can be replaced by showing opportunities.

I can say I enjoyed greatly doing Haven credo quests in series and it surely gave me a feeling of anticipation when I was completing one quest and looking forward to a new challenge. Being presented daily with a set of challenges, majority of which were not possible to fulfill directly on my char and finding ways around to meet requirements was a lot of fun. I'd say it was way more fun than stats grind.

Key upsides of Haven quest system:
- Grind can by worked around. Instead of "grind enough stats to kill a bear" it asks for "be smart enough to hit it and not get steamrolled" or "acquire some bear drops".
- Quests are somewhat related to current char development focus.
- Instead of holding hand it presents opportunities. Rather than "get gear to progress" it goes like "make it, now see what you have learned by making it, perhaps it is useful for you".
- Forfeiting a quest comes with a cost. That cost is significantly higher in credo quests and lower with regular quests up to the point of abuseability, which is not necessarily an upside.
- It encourages travelling in the local area which is yet another way to explore the game.

Compared to Salem Royal order system weakneses in respective areas:
- There are less ways to complete trade orders, it is either get it yourself or trade. While it certainly allows alts to help with acquiring stuff there is little variety in activities undertaken.
- There is no relationship with players game style and current focus. Tradeability was intended to deal with it but it does not work currently.
- While it certainly motivate to try and acquire stuffs the amount of quests is limited and does not stimulate as much exploring game mechanics as Haven system does. That's because the set of items really being used for orders is limited to items referenced by easier/better orders.
- Trade orders being tradeable is in fact a weak sport. Perhaps it could be different if the game had more variety, like 10s of different birds, animals and wood types. At the current stage either the trade order materials are product or byproduct of some profitable and manageable activity or the whole order becomes **** and is thrown away. The cost of forfeiting an order is equal to a cost of keeping an alt to farm orders.


What can be done to improve:
- add orders which demand certain effect rather than strictly defined items, for example deliver foods worth 100 (1000, 10000) yellow bile points, the order would take any any food with non-zero YB but complete only when certain total has been reached, similarly an order can demand restore foods of certain value, though this kind of orders could be probably easily stuffed with charred something.
- add orders that demand slotted gear with certain minimum stat value, e.g. deliver a set with 100 feasting. The order would take any clothes with non-zero feasting and productivity value. It is disputable it if should take same type of clothing twice (e.g. two hats).
- add orders that demand certain, somewhat randomized set of (unslotted) clothing fitting within certain theme but allowing several options for each piece. e.g. soldier gear, craftsmen gear, ball gown with accessories.
- increase number of order types, perhaps introduce different grades within the same order type, e.g. the order that demands iron bars could demand various amounts or various metals (and respectively give different amount of IOUs), the order that asks for butterflies could ask for certain species but in lesser quantity.
- add orders involving darkness drops, offered more often to witch characters (just more often, in vague terms)
- add orders focused on certain professions and triggered/enabled by being advanced in these professions e.g. there is already an order demanding large amount of mushrooms, there could be more, asking for flowers, vegetables or fish fillets.
- Introduce orders that involve visiting Landmarks, it could be buying special stuff from NPCs/stalls located at these landmarks (none currently AFAIK) or returning the order itself to a different NPC instead.
- The NPC handing out the orders can be improved in several ways:
-- offer more than one choice of order (and more than just two or three), possibly demanding payment in silver or IOUs for higher level orders
-- can be bribed in more than one way to offer even more orders and the additional orders would be related to bribery nature. The NPC or his fellows should sometimes drop a hint about items he would accept. E.g. a witch in Nod could sometimes mention a notable who used to buy her potions and the fiddler in the marketplace could complain about unfair competition of trumpeters who are given free trumpets by royal clerks. The NPC should also accept small briberies in farm products from poor farmers (resulting in marginally better but more focused orders).
-- take character looks into account and hand out different orders based on what kind of slotting is dominant in the gear (or just consider affluence, or see how much slots in the clothing are filled or see to which industry the clothes themselves are related).
-- take character proficiencies into account
-- there could be a dynamic bonus system on less popular orders, so the returns are adjusted to perceived difficulty.


Royal order system comes with some limitations, within that system it is difficult to justify doing an action that does not result in dropping an item and because there is no quest giver network, it is also difficult to encourage more wandering around with that system but certainly it can be improved to provide more varied challenges.
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Re: Task System

Postby Methuzelah23 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:28 pm

Salem does not need an elaborate questing system for players that are too lazy, stupid, or not creative enough to set their own goals. If "some people get bored bla bla repetitive" then those people are idiots doing the same boring ass **** every day with nobody to blame but themselves. Trade orders may not be perfect, but its as close as we should get to a questing system. You probably disagree with lachlaan because you're noobish in your methods. Postponing/rearranging/otherwise restructuring the way you do things to revolve around quests is one of the more idiotic things suggested, and is completely counter intuitive to actually being successful in Salem.

Maybe you have more fun when your spoonfed **** to do, but that's not what Salem is about.
- Instead of holding hand it presents opportunities. Rather than "get gear to progress" it goes like "make it, now see what you have learned by making it, perhaps it is useful for you".
that is literally being held by the hand and showed what to do.

- Forfeiting a quest comes with a cost.
Another reason trade orders is superior to your idiotic idea. Not only do you want people to be told what to do, but you also want them to be punished for not doing it. Everything about your idea is pure garbage and you're a lazy and incompetent player that lacks any imagination or creativity of your own.
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Re: Task System

Postby Chrumps » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:05 pm

You clearly have no idea what I am talking about.
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Re: Task System

Postby Methuzelah23 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:04 am

Chrumps wrote:I clearly have no idea what I am talking about.


Finally, we agree
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Re: Task System

Postby Judaism » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:25 pm

Cravings are bad as they are, same goes for the orders. Its one of the last things hypothetical development should be focused on. The OP seems to suggest a penalty for not completing said job/task. Hopefully you do you realize that this game has many aspects such as criminality, witchcraft and PvP.

I myself hate to be forced or reminded to do things, when I play I look for my own incentive to play and work on the specific progression I want. For example the cravings completely ***** up things such as imbalance biles and some goes for professions. lets say I have no intention in raising anything but S&C and Herbs, yet I get all the other tasks, which I do not wish or want. While other people make faster general progress, by following said game-style or quest-line.

Just to put it in perspective how Concord went:
You were forced to find animals (thru vast RNG), you were forced to find all the statues (thru vast RNG), you were forced to do your cravings (vast RNG, especially early game), you were forced to prioritize your IOU's (thru vast RNG), you were forced to get a T3 witch and pray to every statue, you were forced to get a new wine recipe every week by wandering to the deep darkness, which provided random recipes for a specific bile, you were forced to server status and many more things.

Just further go into a single aspect: the cravings for example, since everything evolved around the failed new mechanic of the wine to boost your cravings and forced everyone to adapt to that single mechanic you had to get literally everything and do everything which had huge implications due to fact that the higher your biles became, the more developed your infrastructure and everything else had to become. For someone like myself who always used to play this game by consuming meat and meat alone, it really does suck to be literally doing everything in order to maximize your **** and according to daily tasks and such.

It might sound like some derailing, but it greatly ruined everyone's enjoyment of the game. You are forced thru a narrow minded ''quest'' and playstyle in order to maximize and ultimately win a server. The same goes for the older expedition Popham. Darwoth most certainly deserved that victory, however nearly all the competition got burned out a year prior to that victory. They were not looking into following a said play-style and quest-line for everyone.

In certain games for example such as Maplestory 2, you are ''forced'' to go thru all the questlines. If you do not comply, you will be leveling and progressing at least 5 times slower.

That basically is my view on it in general, hence why I am strongly against the previous flawed added mechanics and furthermore similar task systems. The development could focus on various more meaningful things to also boost the incentive, interaction, progression and so forth.

Its completely against the sandbox freedom, if you ask me at least.
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