Let's have that political discussion.

[Darwoth]

I'm a (moron) Progressive Social-Democrat with a touch of Humanism and proud to be Liberal

yes, that is what all of the communists in this country call themselves. and you still have no argument for why you think it is acceptable to steal the property of others to hand out to *****.

[Ikpeip]

Good evening,

The difference between Right wing fringe movements like the Tea Party and the other one's I mentioned and Left Wing fringe movements like Abolitionists...

Are you trying to revise history so that Abraham Lincoln wasn't a Republican, and the Democratic party wasn't the party of slavery?

Woman's Suffrage...

Are you trying to revise history so that the 19th amendment wasn't repeatedly voted down by Democrats, until the Republicans took Congress during WWI and passed it?

and Occupy wall street are three fold.

Those ones are all yours.

Generally the left wing movements are promoting new ideas such as ...

Such as Eugenics.
Such as The "Model Cities" program - its success lives on in Detroit.
Such as Communist Genocides.
Such as Big Labor.
Such as unjustifiable and unpopular acts of aggression against Middle-East nations without UN approval

Seperatist actions won't happen for the single reason that so much of the active armed forces, and specifically their equipment are overseas now. While only 14% or of active personnel are overseas that includes so much of the equipment and active combat troops that it would be impossible for any separatist movement to use them. Their transportation back to the states would be directed by the Government.

Secondly the army as a whole would never be able to join any separatist movement completely. They'd be too spread out to be entirely in any separatist area even though 1/3 of army bases are in the South. The National character of all units now would also lead to most if not all units following the government. Regional forces such as State Guard units of course would be annihilated if they every rose up.

Lastly, even if a single state or region rose up and declared their independence a structure already exists for taking over their political structure because of the Civil War. The National Armed forces would simply march in and install federal control They would have no national support for their actions and it's idiotic to even try it.

You're outside your bailiwick. While a military-backed secessionist movement is highly unlikely, the reasons you give are so far off the mark that it's curious you thought it'd be wise to opine on this at all.

Do you really think if a Soldier from Georgia who wishes to support a secessionist movement is going to let the fact that he happens to be stationed in Fort Lewis stop him? Best case, the Soldier goes AWOL... worst case, he stays where he is and becomes a saboteur.

While only 14% or of active personnel are overseas that includes so much of the equipment and active combat troops that it would be impossible for any separatist movement to use them.

This sentence doesn't even make sense. The military being spread overseas would be a boon for secessionists, who wouldn't have to worry about overseas units for months. Your assertion that there's not enough troops or equipment stateside for a separatist movement to make use of indicates you haven't been to Ft. Hood or Ft. Benning recently.

The U.S. military will not support a separatist movement in the near future because of the organizational professionalism, discipline, and strong sense or obligation to the United States as a whole. It's not a matter of logistics, but a matter of character.

Finally, to nitpick, it's "national Armed Forces" and not "National Armed forces."

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

[MagicManICT]

Trying to sum up American politics with a political cartoon from 1860 is a bunch of horse **** just like you know it is. I know what you're trying to do, but you're just making yourself look stupid. I think my 14 year old son could tell you things have changed in 150 years.

Funny thing is, until about 40 years ago, what is now known as the Christian Coalition (Moral Majority, various other names over the years) were Democrats and were considered socially progressive, and then Roe vs Wade came around. The leadership all jumped the Democrat ship and joined the Republicans who pandered to the groups by supporting Right to Life movements. Since then, the sheep have taken up bleating the anti-progressive mantras.

I saw a chart in a magazine a while back. I believe it was Wired, but I don't recall exactly off the top of my head and might have been a news magazine in a doctors office. (I tried searching wired.com, but couldn't pull anything up.) It showed which way political parties had moved back and forth and the birth and death of various parties in US history. It was an interesting view of how things snake around and what one party considered to be unrealistic or anti-American changes in a generation or two.

[Ikpeip]

Trying to sum up American politics with a political cartoon from 1860 is a bunch of horse **** just like you know it is. I know what you're trying to do, but you're just making yourself look stupid. I think my 14 year old son could tell you things have changed in 150 years.

Your political cartoons are still pretty vile:


Hey, it was your brother-in-arms Comrade Claeyt who wanted to open up this can of worms, not me. If your problem is timeliness, then more recently, Robert Byrd. Even more recently, VP Joe biden, or Hillary Clinton, or Chuck Hagel, or Joe Biden some more, or Harry Reid.

I saw a chart in a magazine a while back. I believe it was Wired, but I don't recall exactly off the top of my head and might have been a news magazine in a doctors office. (I tried searching wired.com, but couldn't pull anything up.) It showed which way political parties had moved back and forth and the birth and death of various parties in US history. It was an interesting view of how things snake around and what one party considered to be unrealistic or anti-American changes in a generation or two.

I am unable to refute the chart in a magazine you read a while back that may or may not have been Wired and showed something or other but definitely supports your view.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

[Claeyt]

Good evening,
Are you trying to revise history so that Abraham Lincoln wasn't a Republican, and the Democratic party wasn't the party of slavery?

Are you trying to revise history so that the 19th amendment wasn't repeatedly voted down by Democrats, until the Republicans took Congress during WWI and passed it?
Those ones are all yours.

I never said the Republicans weren't a progressive movement for most of their existence. The Republicans used to be the Liberal Party and the Progressive Party. Around the great Depression and into WW II they became something different. They turned into a reactionary anti-communist force and after Nixon's southern strategy their race war strategy had completed their current make up. Reagan's administration was arguably the last gasp of the Rockefeller Republicans and Gingrich chased the last of them from the party. The question is will we ever see them again.

Such as Eugenics.
Such as The "Model Cities" program - its success lives on in Detroit.
Such as Communist Genocides.
Such as Big Labor.
Such as unjustifiable and unpopular acts of aggression against Middle-East nations without UN approval[/spoiler]

I should have been more specific that I was talking about the Left and Right of this country.

Eugenics was a Victorian era reaction to industrialized poverty. It was used by the upper classes to justify their position. As it transferred to the United States it was used as an anti-immigrant and anti-poor social experiment by the established classes.

Big Labor is the single greatest factor in the creation of the American Working Middle Class and the creation of the American Dream over the last 100 years.

Middle Eastern Wars have been driven by the Right.

The Model Cities Program has it's faults and it's been changed and has evolved since the 60's but it's main goal was to change the ghetto's of the 19th century to something better. Unfortunately back in the 60's and 70's it changed them into the Ghetto's of the later 20th century. The policy wasn't a complete failure everywhere. Some of the it's projects have been major successes.

Although this doesn't translate to American Political Dimensions at all, I'll answer it. Every single Communist Genocide was generally a response to the progressive factions within their own countries. Stalin's purges of the followers and eventual assassination of Trotsky and Mao's Cultural Revolution were those in power purging those who were not. In both cases the more conservative forces of the prevailing ideology were in control. Translating these to here doesn't really work, but I will say that any ideology Right or Left taken to an extreme is bad. Take it as an another example of why the Tea Party is wrong for America.

Separatist actions won't happen for the single reason that so much of the active armed forces, and specifically their equipment are overseas now. While only 14% or of active personnel are overseas that includes so much of the equipment and active combat troops that it would be impossible for any separatist movement to use them. Their transportation back to the states would be directed by the Government.

Secondly the army as a whole would never be able to join any separatist movement completely. They'd be too spread out to be entirely in any separatist area even though 1/3 of army bases are in the South. The National character of all units now would also lead to most if not all units following the government. Regional forces such as State Guard units of course would be annihilated if they every rose up.

Lastly, even if a single state or region rose up and declared their independence a structure already exists for taking over their political structure because of the Civil War. The National Armed forces would simply march in and install federal control They would have no national support for their actions and it's idiotic to even try it.

You're outside your bailiwick. While a military-backed secessionist movement is highly unlikely, the reasons you give are so far off the mark that it's curious you thought it'd be wise to opine on this at all.

Do you really think if a Soldier from Georgia who wishes to support a secessionist movement is going to let the fact that he happens to be stationed in Fort Lewis stop him? Best case, the Soldier goes AWOL... worst case, he stays where he is and becomes a saboteur.

The point is that he'll be a member of a unit with other soldiers from everywhere else in the country. One of the great unifying forces of this country are the Armed Forces.

While only 14% or of active personnel are overseas that includes so much of the equipment and active combat troops that it would be impossible for any separatist movement to use them.

This sentence doesn't even make sense. The military being spread overseas would be a boon for secessionists, who wouldn't have to worry about overseas units for months. Your assertion that there's not enough troops or equipment stateside for a separatist movement to make use of indicates you haven't been to Ft. Hood or Ft. Benning recently.

The U.S. military will not support a separatist movement in the near future because of the organizational professionalism, discipline, and strong sense or obligation to the United States as a whole. It's not a matter of logistics, but a matter of character.

Any deployment can be back inside a month these days. I've been on large scale military bases plenty of times which I'm not going to get into here. I'm talking about more than just vehicles and equipment.

So are you saying that Darwoth is lacking in character because he does support a separatist movement?

[Ikpeip]

Any deployment can be back inside a month these days. I've been on large scale military bases plenty of times which I'm not going to get into here. I'm talking about more than just vehicles and equipment.

A limited group of personnel can be moved within a month, equipment can not. Were you to try to redeploy the entirety of overseas personnel at once, it would take far longer than a month. You have no experience or knowledge of the logistical depth of a redeployment.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

[Claeyt]

Any deployment can be back inside a month these days. I've been on large scale military bases plenty of times which I'm not going to get into here. I'm talking about more than just vehicles and equipment.

A limited group of personnel can be moved within a month, equipment can not. Were you to try to redeploy the entirety of overseas personnel at once, it would take far longer than a month. You have no experience or knowledge of the logistical depth of a redeployment.

Faithfully,

-Paul the Paymaster

Are you trying to tell me that if a secessionist insurrection within the United States broke out that the entirety of units overseas wouldn't be moved as quickly as possible? We're not talking about some slow motion plan here. Either way my original point was that overseas deployment hampered any military participation in any "New" Civil War. It sounded like you didn't believe one was possible anyways since you don't believe the Armed Forces would participate. I personally don't think any sort of secession would be possible without some sort of military coup.

All of this is just a pipe dream of guys like Darwoth anyways. It will never happen.

[Darwoth]

oh look, claeyt is still ignoring the fact that his ENTIRE belief system is that he and other communists are somehow entitled to STEAL from you and redistribute your resources as they see fit.

incoming another dozen pages of ***** to cloud said fact.

[Claeyt]

oh look, claeyt is still ignoring the fact that his ENTIRE belief system is that he and other communists are somehow entitled to STEAL from you and redistribute your resources as they see fit.

incoming another dozen pages of ***** to cloud said fact.

Taxes aren't stealing jackass, no matter how much you repeat it. As always, "Taxes Are What We Pay for Civilized Society." You can always move to a country where there are no taxes. You'll enjoy Afghanistan or Somalia.



"The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People's Money out of their Pockets, tho' only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors' Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell'd to pay by some Law.

All Property, indeed, except the Savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

-Benjamin Franklin



"I like to pay taxes. With them, I buy civilization." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Darwoth]

oh look, claeyt is STILL trying to deny he is nothing but a thief in a laughable attempt at masking his support of theft by calling it "taxes" it ceases to be "just taxes" when there is a neverending attempt at creating new taxes and/or overtaxing the productive to pay for and buy votes from those who do nothing and deserve nothing.

you are nothing more than another of the millions of other pieces of worthless **** voting themselves money from the pockets of the non trash and pretending that it is not theft.


once again, like all parasites you need us. we do not need or want you. and that is why you morons will push and push until you erode the very ground you are standing on.