TL;DR: The Thread

[jwhitehorn]

100% meaningful conversation...between claeyt and anybody whom disagrees with her. I kind of only get one side of the conversation though and read clips of claeyt's side when people quote her.

It became pretty clear she had no leg to stand on early on and now its just been entertaining watching her flounder around. Its not often you see one argue for a Utopian society with less-than perfect ideals.

Cheif PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

[Claeyt]

100% meaningful conversation...between claeyt and anybody whom disagrees with her. I kind of only get one side of the conversation though and read clips of claeyt's side when people quote her.

100% meaningful conversation...between claeyt and anybody whom disagrees with her. I kind of only get one side of the conversation though and read clips of claeyt's side when people quote her.

It became pretty clear she had no leg to stand on early on and now its just been entertaining watching her flounder around. Its not often you see one argue for a Utopian society with less-than perfect ideals.

Cheif PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

Claeyt, bringing peace to to world, one forum rivalry at a time. Who would have thought bringing StaxJax and the Chief together was possible.

[Dallane]

100% meaningful conversation...between claeyt and anybody whom disagrees with her. I kind of only get one side of the conversation though and read clips of claeyt's side when people quote her.

100% meaningful conversation...between claeyt and anybody whom disagrees with her. I kind of only get one side of the conversation though and read clips of claeyt's side when people quote her.

It became pretty clear she had no leg to stand on early on and now its just been entertaining watching her flounder around. Its not often you see one argue for a Utopian society with less-than perfect ideals.

Cheif PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe

Claeyt, bringing peace to to world, one forum rivalry at a time. Who would have thought bringing StaxJax and the Chief together was possible.

>implying we haven't been playing together all along waiting for server xfers. All HoB post was just to troll everyone and pump post count.

[Ornery]

Months long ruse ruined in moments. gg dallane

[FutureForJames]

Months long ruse ruined in moments. gg dallane

Old News. He already admitted it during November 11th last year:

i wonder what the drawing on the left means. it looks to me like the triangle is the reservation prospering and growing as large as the pyramids and the thing above it represents the sky and mother earth with her warm embrace.

my god what a wondrous place!

[Claeyt]

>implying we haven't been playing together all along waiting for server xfers. All HoB post was just to troll everyone and pump post count.

If this is true, it would literally be the greatest forum trolling achievement of all time. It would enter the record books as one of the best internet pranks of all time.

[Procne]

If this is true, it would literally be the greatest forum trolling achievement of all time. It would enter the record books as one of the best internet pranks of all time.

Wouldn't it be the best reason to pretend it's true now?

[marvi]

Clipping certain words? Most of my quotes from them were the full posts. I don't think I've demonized anybody here, their ideas did that for them.

See, now you refuse responsibility for the consequences of your very own actions. It *feels* wrong and it raises questions.

The topic of this discussion is very old...

In 1847 Nikolai Gogol, a famous russian writer, wrote an unusual and highly controversial book:

After defending autocracy, serfdom, and the Orthodox Church in his book Selected Passages from Correspondence with his Friends, Gogol was attacked by his former patron Vissarion Belinsky. The first Russian intellectual to publicly preach the economic theories of Karl Marx, Belinsky accused Gogol of betraying his readership by defending the status quo.

Here is the text of Belinsky letter: ink. Young Dostoevsky was close to execution just for publishing this letter: link.

The same period emerged a movement called Zemstvo. It unified a lot of young good-hearted people: doctors, teachers, who came to "folk" to teach them. It couldn't be bad, and I agree.

Now look at the letter of Dostoevsky written in 1871: link. To quote (but I suggest to read it in a whole):

All this would take long wholly to express, but
what I really want to say to you is: If Bielinsky,
Granovsky, and all the rest of the gang, had lived to
see this day, they would have said: " No, it was not
to this that we aspired ! No, this is a mistake; we
must wait a while, the light will shine forth, progress
will win, humanity will build on new and healthier
foundations, and be happy at last !" They would
never admit that their way can lead at best but to the
Commune or to Felix Pyat. That crew was so obtuse
that even now, after the event, they would not be
able to see their error, they would persist in their
fantastic dreaming.

Should I remind what happened to Russia in 20th century? I can't say all these events were bad. They were horrible still. But I wouldn't even exist, after all! Because my parents came together from very different social and cultural backgrounds thanks to public education and equality.

And no, I don't think famines, GULAG's, mass executions are doomed to happen. But what do you think about the future of Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451"?

On the side note, I don't understand Jorb's affection to monarchy. But it doesn't give me a right to point finger at him just for that thought. And speaking of public education... for me, his quote alone doesn't say that it needs to be abolished. But it points out an obvious shortcoming.

P.S. Consider everything above as a food for thought. Everything I wanted to say, was said. This is my last post here.

[Claeyt]

Clipping certain words? Most of my quotes from them were the full posts. I don't think I've demonized anybody here, their ideas did that for them.

See, now you refuse responsibility for the consequences of your very own actions. It *feels* wrong and it raises questions.

The topic of this discussion is very old...

In 1847 Nikolai Gogol, a famous russian writer, wrote an unusual and highly controversial book:

After defending autocracy, serfdom, and the Orthodox Church in his book Selected Passages from Correspondence with his Friends, Gogol was attacked by his former patron Vissarion Belinsky. The first Russian intellectual to publicly preach the economic theories of Karl Marx, Belinsky accused Gogol of betraying his readership by defending the status quo.

Here is the text of Belinsky letter: ink. Young Dostoevsky was close to execution just for publishing this letter: link.

The same period emerged a movement called Zemstvo. It unified a lot of young good-hearted people: doctors, teachers, who came to "folk" to teach them. It couldn't be bad, and I agree.

Now look at the letter of Dostoevsky written in 1871: link. To quote (but I suggest to read it in a whole):

All this would take long wholly to express, but
what I really want to say to you is: If Bielinsky,
Granovsky, and all the rest of the gang, had lived to
see this day, they would have said: " No, it was not
to this that we aspired ! No, this is a mistake; we
must wait a while, the light will shine forth, progress
will win, humanity will build on new and healthier
foundations, and be happy at last !" They would
never admit that their way can lead at best but to the
Commune or to Felix Pyat. That crew was so obtuse
that even now, after the event, they would not be
able to see their error, they would persist in their
fantastic dreaming.

Should I remind what happened to Russian in 20th century? I can't say all these events were bad. They were horrible still. But I wouldn't even exist, after all! Because my parents came from very different social and cultural backgrounds thanks to public education and equality.

And no, I don't think famines, GULAG's, mass executions are doomed to happen. But what do you think about the future of Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451"?

On the side note, I don't understand Jorb's affection to monarchy. But it doesn't give me a right to point finger at him just for that thought. And speaking of public education... for me, his quote alone doesn't say that it needs to be abolished. But it points out an obvious shortcoming.

P.S. Consider everything above as a food for thought. Everything I wanted to say, was said. This is my last post here.

The unique failures of Russian Socialism over the last 200 years really can't be compared to either the American or Western European experience. It turned to the extreme and undemocratic. The West had it's own failures of ideology with Capitalism over that time, and our move towards Democratic-Socialism has softened it. I always remember that the Russian serfs and the American Slaves were freed in the same year. That's really the only time our histories sort of connected.

Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451" was written as a direct response to McCarthy's anti-communist crusade and book banning based on perceived socialism and progressive ideologies within them. It was an argument very much like this one against reactionary right wing ideologues. In that case the right wing ideas were less libertarian than those put forth here, but similar in that they were being reactionary to events in the world. at that moment in time.

I never said that Jorb said anything against public education. He mentioned his ideas about equality, we talked about that, Procne and the Chief gave examples concerning public education, and I answered. Jorb never even mentioned it.

[jwhitehorn]

Would anyone mind if I split this topic into two? I'll try to keep relevant posts in here.

I'm ok with this. May I suggest that the new thread be titled "Claeyt's warped perception on social dynamics"?

Chief PeePooKaKa
MM Tribe