Can we finally do something about random murderers?

[MagicManICT]

It's a known fact Russians only play on Roanoke. I bet it was those lazy ass Americans who never want to do anything for themselves.

[Dallane]

It's a known fact Russians only play on Roanoke.

Thats not totally true. I see a few people speaking russian in boston now and then

[Champie]

I hate to be so rude, but when will you people wake up and realize the world isn't about making millions of dollars. People do this stuff for the art as often as they do it for the money. Why do you think there's such a huge indie game market out there? Sometimes the two coincide and you get something like Minecraft. Sometimes you get something like Dwarf Fortress that has come to sustain the dev's art. Most of the time, you get devs who can't even make a living at their game but keep on developing it for 20 years anyway because they have something beautiful and wonderful with a great, if small fan base.

This game isn't about satisfying the mass market. This game is about a vision. Yes, the game needs to stay healthy enough to remain viable as a business for Paradox to continue with it. However, that never happens by pandering to every single user whim. Yes, the devs AND Paradox are well aware that permadeath is a huge turnoff in a game for a large part of the population. Guess what? It isn't going away. I believe that the permadeath is what makes this game so appealing.

I just had to bump this post to say to MagicMan, Excellent! Salem is more art than business in the way it is designed and I love that about the game. Thanks for your post.

[m4sCaRpWn]

I hate to be so rude, but when will you people wake up and realize the world isn't about making millions of dollars. People do this stuff for the art as often as they do it for the money. Why do you think there's such a huge indie game market out there? Sometimes the two coincide and you get something like Minecraft. Sometimes you get something like Dwarf Fortress that has come to sustain the dev's art. Most of the time, you get devs who can't even make a living at their game but keep on developing it for 20 years anyway because they have something beautiful and wonderful with a great, if small fan base.

This game isn't about satisfying the mass market. This game is about a vision. Yes, the game needs to stay healthy enough to remain viable as a business for Paradox to continue with it. However, that never happens by pandering to every single user whim. Yes, the devs AND Paradox are well aware that permadeath is a huge turnoff in a game for a large part of the population. Guess what? It isn't going away. I believe that the permadeath is what makes this game so appealing.

I just had to bump this post to say to MagicMan, Excellent! Salem is more art than business in the way it is designed and I love that about the game. Thanks for your post.

Your argument is flawed because you basically made the counter-argument within it. If the game doesn't make enough money, Dox will pull the plug. They won't keep losing money because it's lost on art. Hopefully when the game releases the shop will expand enough to make enough money to at least break-even.

Having said that, you're right about permadeath. If they got rid of permadeath, some players might re-join the game. Others might quit the game. At best Salem would end up in the same position it's currently in.

[ElCapitan1701]

Atm most of players having invested some time and got killed or taken everything will quit. The devs should be able to read that out of the numbers. How many have startet Salem, how many are still playing? How many have quitted after a short time? (=> improve tutorial / early gameplay). How many have played some time and then quitted? Have they been killed, robbed etc.?

If you abondon permadeath you will lose some small group of hardcore gamers, which can go back playing H&H. We would also get some nice atmosphere here in the forums and every new player getting killed won`t be called stupid.

[m4sCaRpWn]

Atm most of players having invested some time and got killed or taken everything will quit. The devs should be able to read that out of the numbers. How many have startet Salem, how many are still playing? How many have quitted after a short time? (=> improve tutorial / early gameplay). How many have played some time and then quitted? Have they been killed, robbed etc.?

If you abondon permadeath you will lose some small group of hardcore gamers, which can go back playing H&H. We would also get some nice atmosphere here in the forums and every new player getting killed won`t be called stupid.

How big is "some small group of hardcore gamers?" Do you know? Because I sure don't. Do they make up 5% of the overall current playerbase? 95%?

And who knows how many players have been killed, and quit as a result? I'm sure the answer to that question would be relatively easy for the devs to come up with, and if they see it as a huge problem they'll probably opt to open up a limited-PvP server sometime in the future.

[Dallane]

Atm most of players having invested some time and got killed or taken everything will quit. The devs should be able to read that out of the numbers. How many have startet Salem, how many are still playing? How many have quitted after a short time? (=> improve tutorial / early gameplay). How many have played some time and then quitted? Have they been killed, robbed etc.?

If you abondon permadeath you will lose some small group of hardcore gamers, which can go back playing H&H. We would also get some nice atmosphere here in the forums and every new player getting killed won`t be called stupid.

oh its you....again.....

You would also lose a great majority of game content and would have zero incentive for anyone to play. permadeath drives the game. Also the devs will never change it.

[segundoblz]

oh its you....again.....

You would also lose a great majority of game content and would have zero incentive for anyone to play. permadeath drives the game. Also the devs will never change it.

How can you be so sure? Are you a dev?

[Champie]

When I say this game is ART, I mean that I find the game to be very elegant, with the exception of a few mechanics that are being worked on, or content that is not yet in game but already developed or currently planned. From the terrain generator to the graphic style, from the mythologized historical setting to sandbox social organization, I find myself sitting back and smiling at the clever and challenging world the devs have created for our and their pleasure. In this instance there is satisfaction in a vision realized in a well crafted game.

Permadeath doesn't scare me, but motivates me to explore and learn the mechanics of survival in this world. I have come to accept that concerns like the one posted in this thread are expected results of the game mechanics as developed. Instead of questioning those decisions, I've decided to embrace these mechanics and honor the development choices in order to fully appreciate what Jorbtar and Paradox have created.

In other words, I'm going with the flow and loving the ride

[m4sCaRpWn]

oh its you....again.....

You would also lose a great majority of game content and would have zero incentive for anyone to play. permadeath drives the game. Also the devs will never change it.

How can you be so sure? Are you a dev?

Much of the game's core gameplay revolves around PvP. It's basically impossible to change that fact. The best you could hope for is the release of a specially-built, modified limited-PvP server (which would change a lot of how the game is played). The chance of this happening is very low but higher than zero (as opposed to limiting PvP on current servers, the chance of which is basically zero). At any rate, if such a server were to be created, it would be a long time from now.

My suggestion to anyone for whom open PvP is a dealbreaker, as much as it pains me to say, is just to try some other game for a while. Maybe WoW is more suited to your tastes?