Ideas on revamping sieges

[dreadlus]

I approve this message I think it would go a long way in making villages more interesting and reduce the appeal of raiding newbie claims.

Idea behind this changes is not to allow small groups to defend against large ones. Large group will always be able to defeat small one. This is incentive to unite and create towns.
Goal of this changes is to to make sieges take really long time, so active players would have time to prepare, call for help or run away. Or if raiders are really determined, they can spend hard to make and stockpile resources to speed up this process. Idea is to make raiding small bases non-profitable if their defences are adequate. But still possible to do, if you determined - this should prevent easily built vaults and protect noobs.

If you want only make it longer make waste-claim warning time dependant on max town auth, so larger town = longer time to prepare defences.
And attack time should be 2 hours only then 4-8 hours break for both sides and repeat. It will make raids longer and raiders will lose more silver on totems drain.

EDIT: And my idea is not to allow smaller groups win vs large groups, just to be able to defend your camp, you can defend solo vs 2 maybe 3 raiders, but 10 vs 1 is 100% fail, but if raiders would have to split and attack in waves 2-3 people it would be much more fun, fair and it would take longer.
Smaller camps still won't be able to make counter-raid and siege larger towns, so imho it would be more balanced.

And I have to agree with Ender here, it should be incredibly difficult for a small group to win over a bigger one (except situations like a small group of prepared players vs army of noobs - therefore, knowledge and technology must also play a role regarding the outcome of these conflicts). Limiting the amount of players who can raid a settlement is limiting the multiplayer aspect of the game itself, and doing that means killing the game (after all this is an MMO).

[Mereni]

I really like this idea. I didn't quite understand it the first time I read it though, but on second reading, it looks pretty good. It's an investment for raiders to raid, but not so much that raiding isn't worth it, yes?

It also looks like it would really encourage town formation. If being in a town provides 'civilization' bonuses to the people who live there based on what they do and build, that would be a really good reason to form a town instead of just hermiting. And a really good reason to keep the town active.

[Niding2]

Overall a good idea. However,

To prevent unnecessary wall layering and uncontrolled raid cost escalation multiple walls should have diminishing returns

damage taken by wall should be increased if there is wall of same type inside it and closer than 10-20 tiles

I was considering mechanics to prevent layering myself a couple weeks back, but discarded it as I didnt really figure out a good way to implement it into the game. In your suggestion, what is defined by layers of wall beyond the first? How should the game detect these? If it's simply by the presence of other walls within X tiles, any wallpiece connected to another wall piece would cause the power reduction. If it's only affected by wall-pieces not connected to the current layer of wall, this limitation could easilly be by-passed by building the wall in a snaking pattern, or with doors between each layer of walls to ensure it being "one wall".

I suppose one way for the game to detect this, would be to detect a grid around each wall tile and weaken appropriately. I'm thinking something like 2 tiles in each direction from an individual wall tile, so that a 25-tile 5x5 square would be measured. If the ammount of wall segments inside this area would exceed a number - let's say 7 for now, to allow T-shape wall segments - the wall should be weaker.

[Mereni]

The idea of limiting braziers to firing over only one wall layer has been suggested a few times, I believe? Maybe it's something that could be added to this idea to help prevent wall spam. Or maybe it's easy, or at least possible, to allow walls to distinguish between 'the segment I'm connected to' and 'the other wall layer near me', I don't know enough about programming.

[fox]

Ender, Sir, can you send to Avu some kind hello from me?

[Darwoth]

every single one of these suggestions makes no sense, does nothing but cater to zerger factions and would ***** up the entire game.

Living in high-civilized area should be beneficial to defenses:

Walls should have more hp
wall layers may have a bit of buffer health that regen over time in high-civ areas, but is shared by all wall segments that are connected
Braziers activate earlier and consume less fuel
Some advanced defenses should work only if in high enough civilization level
Defenses should not increase civilization rating of area.
Darkness should have reverse effect on defense mechanics.
Some production oriented civ bonuses should apply too, but they are out of the scope of this topic.

um, why should non darkness have any kind of bonus over darkness at all? because you dont want to go to the quadruple effort to build in the darkness? any bonuses based on geographic location is ridiculous anyway but if they existed they should be applied to the more hostile and difficult areas to build in, NOT the other way around, and certainl not have a "reverse effect on defense mechanics"

Actual raiding and especially base destruction should cost some resources, or be very slow if base is prepared and in civilized area:

raiding resources should be not easily stockpileable - they should go bad after some time. That way really big bases would require coordinated efforts, and not just few months of slow stockpiling.
Raiding resources that gone bad should be craftable into low to mid level useful stuff
resources required to destroy defenses and infrastructure should differ
there should be 2 ways to destroy infrastructure - fast but expensive (powder kegs), or slow but cheap (set on flames)
'powder kegs' would ignore buffer hp of walls
existing mechanic of waste claims could be utilized to provide way for slow but cheap raiding, allowing defense destruction with cheap tools/bare hands

umm, it does cost resources. it costs packs full of food and hours upon hours of time which is the most valuable and finite resource of all. perhaps if you had any idea at all what you were talking about you would not of even posted the above.

the entire above section is just ridiculous on every level, from the introduction of overpowered items only zerg factions (like "the russians" which ender is one of) will afford to use, to stockpiling wagonloads of some kind of perishable resource ( ) before you can swing a hammer at a wall.

To prevent unnecessary wall layering and uncontrolled raid cost escalation multiple walls should have diminishing returns

walls built close to each other(2-5 tiles) will be affected by single 'powder keg'. Cannon shots should chain through walls -if you have 10 wall layers with 1 tile gap between them, then all 10 will be affected, and not just 5 first.
damage taken by wall should be increased if there is wall of same type inside it and closer than 10-20 tiles

pure stupid, lets gut the entire defensive structure of every base in the game because ender does not want to build more than one wall and thinks they look ugly. you know, because 10 walls should totally be no more effective than one

Other random stuff:

defenders can build short-lived (15-60 minutes) totems that will debuff (slow, damage and armor reduction and so on) any trespassers in their radius
attackers can build short-lived totems that will buff trespassers, but attacking totems should be placed on active waste claim

yeah because a 500 stat character only being able to poke around a claim for a minute or so before having to run three miles away and regen humors is not good enough, now we need to ensnare him as well with some sort of artifical game mechanic.

But I'm not a raider and know not much about it

this is painfully obvious, stick to modifying clients and things your good at instead of suggesting sweeping changes to an aspect of the game you know nothing about.

[darnokpl]

Maybe instead spamming walls layer next to layer, we should get ability to building wall up?
If stone wall would be upgradable 3 level up almost nobody would spam it more

[MagicManICT]

does nothing but cater to zerger factions

And doesn't it already do this? If your group isn't the first into an area, you're going to get ran out. If you're the first into an area and not running everyone else out, you're going to let someone get a toehold in and they're going to be knocking you your gates and tearing them down no matter how deep they are. Sounds like a zergfest to me.

[EnderWiggin]

um, why should non darkness have any kind of bonus over darkness at all? because you dont want to go to the quadruple effort to build in the darkness? any bonuses based on geographic location is ridiculous anyway but if they existed they should be applied to the more hostile and difficult areas to build in, NOT the other way around, and certainl not have a "reverse effect on defense mechanics"
umm, it does cost resources. it costs packs full of food and hours upon hours of time which is the most valuable and finite resource of all. perhaps if you had any idea at all what you were talking about you would not of even posted the above

As I said, all this will make sense when darkness/civilization will be properly implemented. Because protection offered by darkness is free and does not require any work from you. And high civ rating means you have base with lots of infrastructure and work put into it, so I believe it deserves a better chances at defending. This will make tiny hearth vaults less overpowered and encourage hiding in proper bases rather than toilet surrounded with lots of walls. At least I hope it will.

the entire above section is just ridiculous on every level, from the introduction of overpowered items only zerg factions (like "the russians" which ender is one of) will afford to use, to stockpiling wagonloads of some kind of perishable resource ( ) before you can swing a hammer at a wall.

This 'overpowered zerg items' are beneficial in several aspects - it means if you want to raid fast, you need to invest in it, it will make fast raids on small settlements unprofitable. So this type of raids will only be conducted out of necessity - destroy hearth vault or really annoying neighbors. And making it unstackable is necessary because other way every faction in 1-2 months will have 'nuclear potential' to level any base in minutes just by slowly producing things. But this way it demands choice between constantly burning resources to be ready in any minute, or wait before you can take on serious defenses.
Oh, and just fyi - I am not part of any faction as of now and never was in russian faction, even in HnH.

pure stupid, lets gut the entire defensive structure of every base in the game because ender does not want to build more than one wall and thinks they look ugly. you know, because 10 walls should totally be no more effective than one

Not only I think it is ugly. Devs also stated that they dislike wall stacking as necessary mechanic. And even right now multiple walls are not granting higher protection - they just increase time needed to raid. Wall spamming takes too much time with too little benefit. Plus it concentrated on 1-2 resource types and purity is irrelevant to it.

yeah because a 500 stat character only being able to poke around a claim for a minute or so before having to run three miles away and regen humors is not good enough, now we need to ensnare him as well with some sort of artifical game mechanic.

Well, you as always do not think before posting. Why you are assuming that current values won't be re-evaluated before implementing this? Plus this short-lived totems is the way to allow farmers/crafters to defend themselves, or at least slow down and make it harder for raiders if they are online.

this is painfully obvious, stick to modifying clients and things your good at instead of suggesting sweeping changes to an aspect of the game you know nothing about.

If I only ever was doing what I was good at, I never would have modded client. Hell, I would then know nothing. This is they way people learn something new - they try it. And this thread is to show my ideas on this topic, so people can see it, suggest fixes to bad parts, or at least properly identify and point why exactly those parts are bad.

[anfros]

There will and should never be a disadvantage (from a mechanic point of view) to being part of a larger faction or bringing larger numbers to a fight, though properly built defenses should give the defender an advantage and the ability to delay the attack and decide when the fight should take place. Zerging should always be a viable tactic imo.