YANG GANG

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YANG GANG

Postby Rifmaster » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:40 pm

What do you think Americans? Are you looking forward to a thousand bucks extra each month?
Do you think UBI would even work? Are you scared of automation?

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Re: YANG GANG

Postby Ronch » Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:28 am

IMO, currently it's just a tactic to garner more votes from lazy-degenerate-turds by turd-bomb Liberal Politicians in my Country.
Meaning; It will never get passed through both houses of Congress (probably not even through one house of Congress) within this Century anyway.

From what I understand, UBI has been tried in several Nations around the World already this decade, and as far as I know it ended in dismal failure(s) socially, economically and morally.
...At one point in the far future (that none of us will ever see) if our Planet's population keeps increasing, and as more industrial automation (robots) replaces the Worlds workforce, then yeah I can see it happening.
I'll even dare to predict it happening within the next 50-100 years, but until then, no I can't see it happening in the US anytime soon.
That aside, there are Countries in the Middle East, and I think Switzerland still too who do give stipends to their Citizens, but which doesn't add up to anything close to a "basic income" though.

But, hey:
I'm all for major tax rebates, at least tax rebates go to folks who actually earned an income. lol

I'm curious, now.
Why don't you offer your opinion on it Rif, like:
How do you think it will affect your Country, or any of your neighboring Countries ?
Or if you think it is a good or bad idea toward work-ethics, creativity/motivation today.
...I think it's not a bad idea in general for the World's far future, but currently think it would be detrimental toward work-ethics, creativity, and bolster the current pathetic entitlement mentality of our Liberal youth's minds in my Country.

Bad Idea, maybe a good idea some time in the future after we sort out things like how to get along with one another and stuff like that.
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Re: YANG GANG

Postby JoanXena » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:26 am

UBI has no place in a capitalist society. Teaching people to fish would outperform handing people fish imo
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Re: YANG GANG

Postby Rifmaster » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:11 pm

Ronch wrote:
I'm curious, now.
Why don't you offer your opinion on it Rif, like:
How do you think it will affect your Country, or any of your neighboring Countries ?
Or if you think it is a good or bad idea toward work-ethics, creativity/motivation today.
...I think it's not a bad idea in general for the World's far future, but currently think it would be detrimental toward work-ethics, creativity, and bolster the current pathetic entitlement mentality of our Liberal youth's minds in my Country.

Bad Idea, maybe a good idea some time in the future after we sort out things like how to get along with one another and stuff like that.


If you mean how American UBI would affect my country, then I highly doubt it would affect my country in any way, however I plan on going to college abroad and hopefully emigrating to the US after that, so I guess in that way it would also affect me. If you mean how it would affect my country if we had UBI, then i really don't know because my country is going to be in a political mess with no progress being made until the next time **** hits the fan and we have a war again, so there's no point in thinking about anything here except how to leave this *****.
One thing to consider is that 12k a year is not a lot of money, not enough to live off of anyway. It would probably make college life a bit easier too, essentially sacrificing a part of one's future earnings (through the extra tax one would have to pay for UBI to be a thing) to make one's young life a bit easier, however Yang seems to have plans to fix the insane college tuition problem in the US anyway so idk if that will even matter. It also just seems like a better system than welfare, and something that could replace it.
Perhaps the feeling of having something instead of nothing will motivate young people to acquire a whole lot more of something.
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Re: YANG GANG

Postby JoanXena » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:55 pm

Rifmaster wrote:
Ronch wrote:
I'm curious, now.
Why don't you offer your opinion on it Rif, like:
How do you think it will affect your Country, or any of your neighboring Countries ?
Or if you think it is a good or bad idea toward work-ethics, creativity/motivation today.
...I think it's not a bad idea in general for the World's far future, but currently think it would be detrimental toward work-ethics, creativity, and bolster the current pathetic entitlement mentality of our Liberal youth's minds in my Country.

Bad Idea, maybe a good idea some time in the future after we sort out things like how to get along with one another and stuff like that.


If you mean how American UBI would affect my country, then I highly doubt it would affect my country in any way, however I plan on going to college abroad and hopefully emigrating to the US after that, so I guess in that way it would also affect me. If you mean how it would affect my country if we had UBI, then i really don't know because my country is going to be in a political mess with no progress being made until the next time **** hits the fan and we have a war again, so there's no point in thinking about anything here except how to leave this *****.
One thing to consider is that 12k a year is not a lot of money, not enough to live off of anyway. It would probably make college life a bit easier too, essentially sacrificing a part of one's future earnings (through the extra tax one would have to pay for UBI to be a thing) to make one's young life a bit easier, however Yang seems to have plans to fix the insane college tuition problem in the US anyway so idk if that will even matter. It also just seems like a better system than welfare, and something that could replace it.
Perhaps the feeling of having something instead of nothing will motivate young people to acquire a whole lot more of something.

Welfare in the US is less than 12k a year. In fact, until recently it was almost half of that. My point about teaching people to fish rather than handing the fish is that making college education a free thing would do more to help a person in college than UBI would. College currently costs about 3-4k PER MONTH of attendance and is a burden bared by someone who has no guarantee of income afterwards. People end up giving up 1/3 of their income for years and years and years, and if things go ****** for them they could end up literally just paying off the interest for their whole life.
Welfare helps people who can't help themselves, free tuition would help people just starting out in life get to a path that will carry them through the rest of their life, and people who are capable of working would have to do just that.

UBI would just inflate the cost of, literally, everything.

**Just for some anecdotal evidence to support - Washington increased their minimum wage substantially over the passed 3 years, which is not the same thing as UBI I understand, but is essentially free money to the lowest tier of actual income and it has had a TERRIBLE impact on housing and living expenses here. I UNDERSTAND THOUGH it may just be coincidence and not correlated
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Re: YANG GANG

Postby Ronch » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:53 am

@ Rif & Joan
College is over priced here in the US, no argument there, way over priced, like; corruptly over priced.
IMO the cost to students should be seriously examined/exposed and overhauled.
...But, with the exception of scholarships, why would anyone expect College to be free, I'd like to hear the reasoning ? ....I won't argue or debate it, I'd just like to see any reasoning behind it.

@ Rif
Yeah, I was asking if you think it would work well in your County.

Anyway,
As for a single person living on 1,000 a month in the US, it's still very doable in rural or small-towns USA as long as you are not trying to live on one of the coast or in a major city.
A single person living alone wont be buying 'many' named brand luxuries frequently, but you can survive on it and even have 1 or 2 hundred dollars left over each month depending on where you live of course.

I'm really not against a UBI for my countrymen, but the two reasons I am not for it is because when it is mentioned by politician(s) (Yang is not the only one who mentions it) it's never elaborated or fleshed out as a plan nor how it's going to be paid for, nor is it mentioned how big it failed in other Nations who have gave it a try already and how we might avoid those same mistakes.
...The second reason is when I hear UBI, foresight automatically kicks in and I see creativity, motivation, responsibility and moral/ethical behaviors deteriorating for the reason that I mentioned above about how it's still very possible to live contently on less than 1k a month in the majority of the US landscape.
I'm willing to elaborate with examples for my second reason there, but will leave it at that for now.
I can also share personal knowledge of folks living around me now, some of who are living on slightly above and some just below 1k a month too.
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Re: YANG GANG

Postby JoanXena » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:11 am

Ronch wrote:@ Rif & Joan
College is over priced here in the US, no argument there, way over priced, like; corruptly over priced.
IMO the cost to students should be seriously examined/exposed and overhauled.
...But, with the exception of scholarships, why would anyone expect College to be free, I'd like to hear the reasoning ? ....I won't argue or debate it, I'd just like to see any reasoning behind it.

To lower the cost of health services and technology in the long run. To level the playing field in terms of access to knowledge and credentials versus how much money your parents were born with. To promote disgruntled worker retraining. To start the ball rolling towards a system that isn't capitalizing on a person's failure.
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