Relax on new players

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Re: Relax on new players

Postby Methuzelah23 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:36 pm

As to don't starve, it also has hypothermia and heatstrokes, and JC clearly appropriated many things right after they were added by Klei. I'd argue Salem is much more forgiving in regards to those mechanics than don't starve. Your comparison really only shows that indeed the mechanics are not why new players aren't retained. Any game needs drama/excitement/news to remain interesting, Klei does this with constant updates and multiplayer options, but Salem used to do this with player created drama. JC is not very reliable, so when there aren't updates from his end, and players ability to cause drama has been neutered by the raiding changes, it just leads to the staleness we have now. No end game for vets and so many games do Farmville and crafting better. Just my opinion of course, new player retention has always been poor, but I feel like it used to be better before all the bloat, when things were simpler and more fast paced.
Darwoth wrote:easily the best and longest standing rivalry i have ever had in a single game.Thanks for being a top quality nemesis and group leader on both servers, the best 1v1 pvp opponent i have squared off against as well.
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Re: Relax on new players

Postby Rifmaster » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:26 pm

Methuzelah23 wrote:As to don't starve, it also has hypothermia and heatstrokes, and JC clearly appropriated many things right after they were added by Klei. I'd argue Salem is much more forgiving in regards to those mechanics than don't starve. Your comparison really only shows that indeed the mechanics are not why new players aren't retained. Any game needs drama/excitement/news to remain interesting, Klei does this with constant updates and multiplayer options, but Salem used to do this with player created drama. JC is not very reliable, so when there aren't updates from his end, and players ability to cause drama has been neutered by the raiding changes, it just leads to the staleness we have now. No end game for vets and so many games do Farmville and crafting better. Just my opinion of course, new player retention has always been poor, but I feel like it used to be better before all the bloat, when things were simpler and more fast paced.


I'd say that new content/drama has little to no impact in new player retention, simply because new players don't really experience either. Everything is new content if you're new to a game.
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Re: Relax on new players

Postby Methuzelah23 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:17 pm

I think you kinda missed the point... And drama is the first thing I experienced and it's what got me hooked on Salem and I doubt I'm the only one with that story.

Perhaps I did not make myself clear though, obviously all content is new when you're new. I never said we should have constant new stuff, what I had meant was that the lack of a developer presence, coupled with the lack of player interactions leads to a stale, dead feeling game which is a turnoff to many.

I think those do affect retention more than mechanics which are far less severe than the comparison you used which leads me to believe it's not mechanically related.
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Re: Relax on new players

Postby MaxPlanck » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:40 am

I can confirm that hypothermia is indeed poorly executed.

Who wants to restart a character through the tutorial that takes 10 minutes (FOR A NEW PERSON, no one cares if you're a vet that knows how to speedrun the tutorial)

Cause that's what happens when you don't figure out hypothermia on your first try.
Now lets add another 20+ minutes or so trying to gather the materials and learn the skills/study items to craft clothing and torches. AGAIN, THESE ARE NEW PLAYERS. Don't care if you know where to find reeds and the skill to weave them, where to find your fancy curious to learn skills, etc.etc. Vet btw yada yada.

Here we have a new player who just spent 30 minutes and failed to get hypothermia on their first try. Now they get to spend another 30 minutes in attempt to play the game before it has even started.

And don't even get me started on how certain areas of the map are colder than others mysteriously (and no, I'm not talking about mountains)
Just imagine a smart young new salem player figures out all this hypothermia business but their starter leanto just happens to spawn in these mysterious cold zones in which the player gets ***** over and heads back to providence city in confusion as to why they are not having problems with hypothermia anymore but can't even play at their leanto and instead has to waste time walking outside of providence and thus began the Salem Walking Simulator everyone knows and loves.

Hypothermia is more punishing than madness. Honestly they should just remove the freezing effect of hypothermia and just increase the debuffs the lower it gets aswell as to not have the debuffs apply right at 97 degrees, aka the first stage of hypothermia and instead lower the debuff starting range to below 90 so players have a window of freedom to not be effected by hypothermia when they heat themselves back up to the normal temperature.
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Re: Relax on new players

Postby Methuzelah23 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:56 am

It would be very nice if the effects didn't immediately kick in as soon as you hit 97, yeah. The help pop up could include the bit about fires and torches, but it very clearly does have in capital red letters "Warning: your character will be lost", and if you are unable/unwilling to hop in a house (free in providence) and do a quick forum/wiki search(assuming you cba to just do what the help screen says), you absolutely deserve to die.

I don't think anybody would argue that it couldn't use some fine tuning, but the key is that it does pose a life threatening risk, its hypothermia after all. I do agree its more harsh than madness, could have longer times to get cold and like max said a lower kick in temperature regarding the slow.

Also It's a bit sad knowing there are people who will spend 20 minutes after being told they are dying, running around ineffectually until they are frozen solid.
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