Scents rework

Forum for suggesting changes to Salem.

Re: Scents rework

Postby Ronch » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:04 am

belgear wrote:Man, it is hard to take you seriously when you obviously have no idea how the mechanics you are offering input on work.
Lol, well... if you are expecting an apology from me for being a noob here ? ..it isn't going to happen fella. :o

At least I am willing to expose myself to criticism and examination by offering suggestions and feedback, which is much, much more than I can say for (not all but many) veteran players who still actively play this game, and even some who don't play any longer either.


belgear wrote:The reason that scents should just stay the same is because it is the easiest part of the justice process.
A noob can find where their attacker lives, can then decide if they
A: want to try and take them on themselves
B: want to get help, people being more inclined to help if they do not have to run through the woods for 4 hours
C: maybe they just want to wait until they can bring their own justice down the line. No matter the case, a noob is capable of being a part of the justice process.
I understand what you are saying here, all of it, and I agree too !
But, adding a (negotiable) humor drain to tracking, or adding (early to mid) prerequisite skill requirements to track wont hinder A, B, or C.

Look:
I don't understand most of the formulas that Chrumps laid out in his original suggestion(s) to tweak tracking. And he doesn't seem to hip on explaining himself either, so I'll leave any discussion about his proposal(s) up to the veteran players here.

The only part of Chrump's suggestion that I do support is: I too think that there should be a cost to leaving tracking turned on, maybe have the cost only be a %-drain on a certain bile/humor, that way it would be fair(er) to newer players.
No points or arguments to the contrary have been made here so far that are very convincing as to why not have tracking incur a cost when activated, a cost in either humor drain or adding (early to mid) prerequisite skills to acquire the skill itself.


belgear wrote:If anything instead of reworking those, maybe rework the TBC process so that the "layers of defense" a raider has protecting their HS actually means something.\

I totally agree with you on this, especially after recently finding out that criminals can hide behind 'eleventeen' layers of walls to avoid justice.


belgear wrote:Getting justice already requires MANY skills and MUCH time. Adding another layer of complication there is just silly and isn't 'fun'

Maybe I am missing something, because I still don't see tracking scents as a form of bringing justice. Tracking is tracking, period.
...Bringing justice is: a player charging another player with a crime to place that criminal in the stocks.
Or, a player using the revenge skill.
Or, a player or players using TBC.
Or, a player or players just straight out harassing or killing a criminal by using other features that already exist inside of the game.
So, I only agree with you to a certain extent as to "lets not make it more complicated" than it already is.
...But, then again just about every part of the game besides traveling the map is complicated and can be described as "not fun" too ...So, that's just Salem, and for me anyway, it's an extremely fun game to play. Some folks don't like easy, especially in a survival game.


belgear wrote:Scents will CONTINUE TO GET COVERED, EVEN IF IT WERE REWORKED. (the whole reason the change was proposed in the first place was to get people to leave unguarded scents. It just won't happen. Not in any situation where they can cover them, anyway. Unless they just don't care about the character, at that point why offer them an additional layer of protection?
I'm really not sure what you mean by covering up scents.
If you have time, maybe you can explain exactly what you are referring to ?
Otherwise: If you mean covering up scents in the way of leaving scents inside of your own territory, then that argument is extremely self serving.

I actually tried to cover up a desecration scent by building a leanto semi-hiding most of the scent's graphic on the ground when I transplanted my ancestor's tombstone to my new base, lol.
...So if you mean covering up in that way, then your argument is from a position of being to lazy to do a little searching.

However, if there is some sort of exploit in the game where scents can be covered in a cheat or otherwise unfair way, then that needs addressed inside of the bugs and technicalities area of the forums, and not used as a point to argue against a scent-related suggestion here.


belgear wrote:P.S. Lilypads ARE the bridges.

I have a suspicion that bridges (if implemented) will be much, much easier to construct than finding lilypads currently are.
Last edited by Ronch on Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Scents rework

Postby Ronch » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:35 am

Ronch wrote:
Dallane wrote:
Ronch wrote:Also, lilypad vaults will be moot once bridges are implemented into the game.


If I remember correctly this is something that isn't really possible or would be extremely time consuming to figure out. I can't remember if it was JC or loftar talking about this last.

I thought that the last time JC address bridges on the forums, he said he was still currently working on it.
Although I haven't re-read his last post on bridges recently to see if it still looks promising or not.
...I'll look it up, thanks.



Here it is: posted Feb 2018
I do not see anything posted here that makes it look not so promising.
JohnCarver wrote:
Chrumps wrote:It is better to integrate some terraforming powers into future realms/upgraded towns mechanics.


The plan is indeed to allow players to terraform over water at the moment. I.E. Raise the sea floor if they want.
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Re: Scents rework

Postby Chrumps » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:15 am

belgear wrote:Scents will CONTINUE TO GET COVERED, EVEN IF IT WERE REWORKED. (the whole reason the change was proposed in the first place was to get people to leave unguarded scents. It just won't happen. Not in any situation where they can cover them, anyway. Unless they just don't care about the character, at that point why offer them an additional layer of protection?

Precisely, the whole idea was to mitigate consequences if players will be forced to leave scents uncovered which has to happen if tedium would be shifted from breaking a wall to breaking a claim.
Taking an extreme example: Consider the situation where you can get into the center of the base in 1 hour but you still need to spend 180 days to break the bell and declaim

belgear wrote:Getting justice already requires MANY skills and MUCH time. Adding another layer of complication there is just silly and isn't 'fun'
If anything instead of reworking those, maybe rework the TBC process so that the "layers of defense" a raider has protecting their HS actually means something.\

This is simply incompatible with the TBC concept of reaching over the walls. It is either to take into account different kind of defense layers, like character skills and proficiencies, player skills, allies or to stop TBC acting over the walls. Essentially something that cannot be fixed directly.
The whole idea of TBC was to force people to fight but in practice the conditions of the fight totally favour the attacker side. I have suggested in another thread a solution which gives the defender some choices and provides partially standardized environment for the fight. It also brings people circuses.
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