In the name of Justice

[Judaism]

I agree, as of right now you are basicly already limited to a specific form of combat. You either have a piercing set, Halberd, a club set or some sort of a full defence set. People are free to enter pclaims/vclaims and operate gates etc to get away during combat. As I mentioned earlier, i strongly doubt the tools in combat have made it easier to catch someone, I think if your opponent is only limited packed, lets say 1 wing a rang and 3 royals and a cricket he can easily throw a wing and jump on his cricket and gets away in a 1v1 fight. Canoe's combat has become a little better but thats not good enough atm either. Its very hard to come-up with specific mechanics, however I absolutely think the issue is not with the actual combat mechanics, it is just way too rare and people almost always get away nowadays.

[Darwoth]

locking/limiting combat moves in a game like salem where the entire dynamic of a fight shifts instantly and the stakes are far higher is only a "good idea" to people who have not done any combat in this game outside of dock club or people who run around 3 - 6 deep where they will then have an even greater advantage over anyone they come across.

every single long standing pvp game held in high regard for its balance to this day has totally avoided a "class system" because class systems are utterly horrible and serve zero advantage other than setting the intelligence bar for players much lower, which is "important" these days and the standby for themepark games far and wide across the internet.

such systems:

1> massively dumb down the combat so that incompetent people do not have to master anything more than rolling their face across 1 - 3 buttons instead of learning 10 - 20 and when/how to use them.

2> detracts from balanced skill based group vs group fights as invariably one group is missing a key template that the other has.

3> creates a "this usually beats this" dynamic instead of the always matched "i wonder if this guy can kick my ass?" in 1v1 combat which is boring, far less exciting, becomes less about reputation then loadout and overall vastly less enjoyable.

4> hands even more of an advantage to the large oceans of trashplayers zerging individual players.

5> massively reduces fluidity, variety in tactics, the pool of "tricks" and much more. since everyone is pigeonholed into a handful of options all fights between class 1 and class 2 play out the 90% the same, no longer can you switch weapons/tactics and reset the fight as the dynamic of it changes either with friends of the enemy, mob aggro, escaping over water, the fight carrying into rough terrain and any number of many things that would warrant a weapon switch.

going into a class system for salem (and for all practical purposes that is exactly what it is if you are locked into a certain set of moves) is easily the single worst proposed change i have ever heard proposed for salem pvp to date in all the years that i have said that something would be terrible and it ended up indeed being terrible. which of course means it will be incoming with great haste


the absolutely best thing about the class system for salem however is that as salem prides itself on maintaining realism in the game play a class system certainly performs that admirably. when a spartan warriors spear broke he just fell over and died since he did not carry a short sword, in the middle ages when a knight with a lance was knocked to the ground he simply swung it around in a 10 ft arc like a cartoon hockey player instead of pulling a sword! in the american west when a comanche ran out of arrows he did not switch to a tomahawk, and in modern times when a soldier fires his tow missile at a tank he just stands there with his ***** in his hand waiting for the advancing enemy foot soldiers to blow him away instead of switching to his rifle, and if his rifle jams he definitely does not have a sidearm as a backup!

i can hardly wait for this overhaul and am nearly pissing myself with excitement.





(btw, do not direct your ire at me over the coming winter for whatever pvp stuff comes down the pike. contrary to the mistaken belief of some here all i can do is give input and my viewpoint, which is more often than not at least 75% ignored )

[Judaism]

Personally I did assume you woud've had plenty of good changes set in stone by now Darwoth, I hope that still is very much the case because this news rather concerns me, quite alot.

[Darwoth]

things change over time, initially the stated goals and how much influence i thought i would have was different. additionally most changes i would make would be relatively minor new mechanics and tweaks/adjustments to the existing fundamentals from the viewpoint of trying to fix broken things and add some new **** but ultimately preserve the feel of the game as it has been.

the overall desire seems to be a more encompassing "new" feel which pretty much nullifies most of my input as it centered on how to balance salem as it is vs a vision of what it could or should be as that just results in major differences of opinion (like class based combat vs open combat) in an arena where mine is of little consequence and i just end up getting annoyed and pissing off others which is a waste of their time they could be implementing **** for the game and mine that i could be playing it killing retards instead.


as with this time last year i give my input when asked, but that is mostly it and we frequently do not agree.

whatever they finally decide on i am sure i will still be better at the game (and every other game) than everyone else, so from my perspective as long as it is still mostly "salem" i don't really care as i will still find creative ways to bend things to my advantage, the why/how of the rest is not worth getting riled up over.

[Lallaith]

It would essentially create 'combat classes' that you are only locked to by weapon choices.

sounds ***** horrible and unsalemy

[Heffernan]

ill just leave this here

I'd like to politely point out that Heff is by all means, a hoarder who scours the markets to snatch up massive amounts of like items (no offense heff, but you know it's true). The large majority of us do not have a shed full of pocket watches. Just in case anyone gets the idea it's "easy" to get pocket watches.

i bet atleast, me, Grand Boos, Nemesiz, Riolic, Kuku, Darwoth, Juda, Meth, Lallaith, KPOTOB, and all other KKK have atleast a Shed of Pocket Watches... its not uncommon to the fighters.

[JohnSnow]

i bet atleast, me, Grand Boos, Nemesiz, Riolic, Kuku, Darwoth, Juda, Meth, Lallaith, KPOTOB, and all other KKK have atleast a Shed of Pocket Watches... its not uncommon to the fighters.

This is bad, for this reason there is no pvp in Salem. New players simply cant compete with someone who has such an advantage, so they hides in towns even if they have enough biles. For example, I found only one tiny pocketwatch for all time, this is not enough even for one fight.

[Heffernan]

i bet atleast, me, Grand Boos, Nemesiz, Riolic, Kuku, Darwoth, Juda, Meth, Lallaith, KPOTOB, and all other KKK have atleast a Shed of Pocket Watches... its not uncommon to the fighters.

This is bad, for this reason there is no pvp in Salem. New players simply cant compete with someone who has such an advantage, so they hides in towns even if they have enough biles. For example, I found only one tiny pocketwatch for all time, this is not enough even for one fight.

yes because Pocket Watches is the Reason they lose, not the fact they might have 250 biles and kuku or darwoth 2000+ not even counting a 350+ piercing set with wich they do 150-180dmg in 1 hit, the cash to make multiple towns in no time, massive brickwalls, 100s of braziers, spam batarangs, poisondarts etc... its definately the pocketwatches....

[riolic]

i bet atleast, me, Grand Boos, Nemesiz, Riolic, Kuku, Darwoth, Juda, Meth, Lallaith, KPOTOB, and all other KKK have atleast a Shed of Pocket Watches... its not uncommon to the fighters.

This is bad, for this reason there is no pvp in Salem. New players simply cant compete with someone who has such an advantage, so they hides in towns even if they have enough biles. For example, I found only one tiny pocketwatch for all time, this is not enough even for one fight.

If you only found one, then you obvisouly are not searching for them, When i first started back last year I had gotten 5 within a week

[Dallane]

This is bad, for this reason there is no pvp in Salem.

Wrong

New players simply cant compete with someone who has such an advantage, so they hides in towns even if they have enough biles. For example, I found only one tiny pocketwatch for all time, this is not enough even for one fight.

Wrong