Dried Fishes

[jakhollin]

Most people find something they like and stick to that. Newbies starting out should mix things up find what they like and do that. I am just sad charred meat shreds from squirrels no longer restore the nut food group. I am a Bagel guy mainly.

[JohnCarver]

Just ask around for noobies that uses dried fishes, i bet you'll find very little players using them, probably just because they "try" them (as i've done).

Sure. But all I see here is you have 'tried' them without any veteran showing you how to truly use them and maximize them to your benefit. You tried and failed to use a good food in the way that it would maximize your benefit. That doesn't make the good food not good. That simply means you need to learn the game and understand just why 20% for 10% is better than a 50% for 50% food as you continue to try to claim as if the two things are equal. Once you have a better grasp on gluttony works I'm confident you'll come to the same conclusion. I'm also confident that if you and I were given 15 minutes of actual play time, and 1 hour to complete the gluttony session, fir a session over 3 days from now that I would completely destroy anything you are talking about with dried fish. And the fact that there is a scenario where dried fish is absolutely destroying anything you can come up with as competition shows again that they fit a niche where they are the 'best' at what they are doing.

So yes I agree noobies don't know how to use dried fish to their benefit. But I'm not changing a system to satisfy those who have not educated themselves how to use it in the first place.

[tyrtix]

First, i don't know why you got so aggressive, i'm just saying what i found in game. Second, i'm not a noob of this game (and similar ones), in fact i'm around for a couple years, the fact i don't write or i'm not a top player do not say that i do not understand how gluttony works, and i don't know why you're saying that, even if you are one of the developers of this game, it's just sad to attack players of your community on facts you just don't know, and this could just sums up the discussion.

Let's see if we sort this with math. Hypotesis is that dried fishes are good for a noob.
I say no, and i may just say that because in the time you get your fishes ready, i've no more a noob toon.

Thesys
A normal dried fish will give an average of 6 points of humor, filling for 3 minutes. Surely, for the filling ploint of view and the % of debuff on the cathegory, they're good, except that a noob (under 40 humors) the filling time is of little relevance. The system in fact lowers the timer every 3 points made, this will make the timer of noob sessions nearly irrelevant; couple that with the fact that it's possible to make sessions before downtime, so you may have a gluttony timer of more than 8 hours and just say "who cares?". I started to find problems with the gluttony timers only after 45 points, before that my sessions stayed below 2-3 hours at maximum, obviously making the harder ones before going offline. This already makes the 3 minutes "good characteristic" irrelevant.

The quantity of points given from the dried fish is really low, in no way it's 30 points when you're noob, except if some vets gives you them or nets to get them (in wich case there are MANY more things in wich a vet can help you, a LOT). The average points a fish gives is, in fact, 6 points, as most of them gives 1-10 points. This leads to a fact: you need an henormous quantity of dried fishes to get somewhere, and also if for the first gluttony sessions they may be useful (as 2 of them MAY fill your bar), after you have 15-20 humors you start to need at least 3 of them just to make 1 point, while a berry salad and a nut are enough (or even too much). To get from 15 to 20 in ONE single humor, you need (n/6) fishes for each point you want to get, so something lie 15 fishes: 100 of them will last little in that way.

Besides that, it will again need at least 3 days to get the fishes ready. In that time i can get to 40 humors, at that point the dried fishes may seems better to use because of the possible purity i may get if i obtain the nets, toghether with the filling timer and the % that lowers a dried fish, pretty good at that point. Still, when you are at 40 humor, you need 7 fishes (in optimal conditions) to raise one point, a total of 21 minutes of filling.

Just one note on roasted fillets: they fill the timer as much as a dried one. At lower levels, even if they lower the % of fish of 50%, you can simply glutton as many as you want, and they give an average of 13 points in humor, more than double.
Guess what? i can simply cook a couple of fillets, and make single sessions of one (or 2-3 fillets) for a point of humor each every 3 minutes. In the first day in wich you are still gathering your fishes from traps, i'll have at least 20 in each humor, gaining in weight i can carry, regeneration of inspiration points and much more. At the end of 3 days this may make a huge difference.

[Dallane]

First, i don't know why you got so aggressive, i'm just saying what i found in game. Second, i'm not a noob of this game (and similar ones), in fact i'm around for a couple years, the fact i don't write or i'm not a top player do not say that i do not understand how gluttony works, and i don't know why you're saying that, even if you are one of the developers of this game, it's just sad to attack players of your community on facts you just don't know, and this could just sums up the discussion.

>he said isn't is a noob and knows how to glutton!

[JohnCarver]

First, i don't know why you got so aggressive, i'm just saying what i found in game. Second, i'm not a noob of this game (and similar ones), in fact i'm around for a couple years, the fact i don't write or i'm not a top player do not say that i do not understand how gluttony works, and i don't know why you're saying that, even if you are one of the developers of this game, it's just sad to attack players of your community on facts you just don't know, and this could just sums up the discussion.

Let's see if we sort this with math. Hypotesis is that dried fishes are good for a noob.
I say no, and i may just say that because in the time you get your fishes ready, i've no more a noob toon.

Thesys
A normal dried fish will give an average of 6 points of humor, filling for 3 minutes. Surely, for the filling ploint of view and the % of debuff on the cathegory, they're good, except that a noob (under 40 humors) the filling time is of little relevance. The system in fact lowers the timer every 3 points made, this will make the timer of noob sessions nearly irrelevant; couple that with the fact that it's possible to make sessions before downtime, so you may have a gluttony timer of more than 8 hours and just say "who cares?". I started to find problems with the gluttony timers only after 45 points, before that my sessions stayed below 2-3 hours at maximum, obviously making the harder ones before going offline. This already makes the 3 minutes "good characteristic" irrelevant.

The quantity of points given from the dried fish is really low, in no way it's 30 points when you're noob, except if some vets gives you them or nets to get them (in wich case there are MANY more things in wich a vet can help you, a LOT). The average points a fish gives is, in fact, 6 points, as most of them gives 1-10 points. This leads to a fact: you need an henormous quantity of dried fishes to get somewhere, and also if for the first gluttony sessions they may be useful (as 2 of them MAY fill your bar), after you have 15-20 humors you start to need at least 3 of them just to make 1 point, while a berry salad and a nut are enough (or even too much). To get from 15 to 20 in ONE single humor, you need (n/6) fishes for each point you want to get, so something lie 15 fishes: 100 of them will last little in that way.

Besides that, it will again need at least 3 days to get the fishes ready. In that time i can get to 40 humors, at that point the dried fishes may seems better to use because of the possible purity i may get if i obtain the nets, toghether with the filling timer and the % that lowers a dried fish, pretty good at that point. Still, when you are at 40 humor, you need 7 fishes (in optimal conditions) to raise one point, a total of 21 minutes of filling.

Just one note on roasted fillets: they fill the timer as much as a dried one. At lower levels, even if they lower the % of fish of 50%, you can simply glutton as many as you want, and they give an average of 13 points in humor, more than double.
Guess what? i can simply cook a couple of fillets, and make single sessions of one (or 2-3 fillets) for a point of humor each every 3 minutes. In the first day in wich you are still gathering your fishes from traps, i'll have at least 20 in each humor, gaining in weight i can carry, regeneration of inspiration points and much more. At the end of 3 days this may make a huge difference.

I'm sorry you feel its an attack. I"m simply stating that you seem to have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, at least for the CONTEXT in which I'm trying to show you why and HOW dried fish can be a better choice. You once again go into a long list of paragraphs as if dried fish are meant to accommodate players who have the ability to sit down and play a 4 hour session. Why would I have a mechanic that takes DAYS to dry then accommodate a player who is going to be hyper active in those days?

Please try to understand this. If you have 15 minutes to play, and you wish to have a GREAT session a few days in the future. There is VERY little outside of smoked meats and a few other foods that give you such great results as dried fish. If you have only a few moments to play while on vacation before hopping back to whatever you are doing on said vacation, throwing a bunch of fish on some racks and having tons of noob food to train up some exploring alt or is quite ideal with dried fish.

I have given you NUMEROUS occasions where dried fish CAN be quite simply the most overpowered solution and choice for food. These occasions are of course edge cases and in MOST cases if they will not be. The case you seem to not be able to let go is of course the case where a player is going to be PLAYING all those hours the fish is drying. I am not arguing that. If you are PLAYING the entire time fish is drying then you should not be drying fish in the first place as there is probably better options available to you if you have the time to pursue them.

You have for numerous posts now not been able to name a single food that works as good in the scenarios I have given you. Instead you feel attacked when I simply highlight that all your effort and 'feelings' about the game are either HIGHLY uneducated or HIGHLY ignorant of the system itself. AGAIN you pretend like making 50%/50% food can compare on ANY level for mass spamming up newer characters than a 20%/10%. This is impossible. Go make yourself several hundred dried fish, then go make yourself several hundred fillets. Then simply eat them, and see which one takes you farther. Unless you get the most lucky of streaks where the 50% doesn't trigger over and over the dried fish will win out the vast majority of the time (especially if using the RIGHT dried fish).

I do not sugar coat anything to the community. Nor do I take pride as a developer allowing inaccurate assessments of the mechanics linger simply so you don't hurt your feelings. These are not opinions, these are hard stats on items that are not debate-able and mathematical formulas that yield factual results. You are simply wrong on the matter. I assumed you were wrong because you didn't know how the system worked, but I guess it is accurate that it doesn't matter WHY you are wrong and I do apologize for trying to hypothesize it.

If you wish to see any changes to dried fish you will have to show me a food that is BETTER in the scenarios of which I have laid out. I am quite confident one does not exist but if you do find it I'm all ears. Otherwise as long as dried fish remains the TOP food for one particular play style of the game I have no desire to buff the food already the 'best' at a certain scenario.

[Reviresco]

Let's do a trial in which the person had pretty mediocre luck with gobble values and debuff chance.

Dried Ghostly Whitefish (Blood)
Gluttony Min: 1
Gluttony Max: 20
Average: 10.5
Reduces Fishes by 10% with 20% Chance (once every 5 gobbles--we'll say each 5th gobble, meaning they had slightly above average luck)

20 Trials
10.5+10.5+10.5+10.5+10.5+9.45+9.45+9.45+9.45+9.45+8.505+8.505+8.505+8.505+8.505+7.6545+7.6545+7.6545+7.6545+7.6545

Roasted Ghostly Whitefish (Blood)
Gluttony Min: 5
Gluttony Max: 20
Average: 12.5
Reduces Fishes by 50% with 50% Chance (once every two gobbles--we'll say each 2nd gobble, meaning they had slightly above average luck)

10 Trials
12.5+12.5+6.25+6.25+3.125+3.125+1.5625+1.5625+.78125+.78125

I don't feel like adding them up, but you get the point.

[JohnCarver]

Let's do a trial in which the person had pretty mediocre luck with gobble values and debuff chance.

Dried Ghostly Whitefish (Blood)
Gluttony Min: 1
Gluttony Max: 20
Average: 10.5
Reduces Fishes by 10% with 20% Chance (once every 5 gobbles--we'll say each 5th gobble, meaning they had slightly above average luck)

20 Trials
10.5+10.5+10.5+10.5+10.5+9.45+9.45+9.45+9.45+9.45+8.505+8.505+8.505+8.505+8.505+7.6545+7.6545+7.6545+7.6545+7.6545

Roasted Ghostly Whitefish (Blood)
Gluttony Min: 5
Gluttony Max: 20
Average: 12.5
Reduces Fishes by 50% with 50% Chance (once every two gobbles--we'll say each 5th gobble, meaning they had slightly above average luck)

10 Trials
12.5+12.5+6.25+6.25+3.125+3.125+1.5625+1.5625+.78125+.78125

I don't feel like adding them up, but you get the point.

Thanks, I probably should have just approached it with this simplicity.

[tyrtix]

Obviously, using dried and fillets in making a single session is NOT the most efficient way to use them, so that approach is proving that who is using it does not know about glutton, not me.

As you still insist on a worthless answer (at least for the point made), i'll give you one: every kind of low level food is better than dried fish, just because they're more abundant and easy to obtain, also easy to cook, that, simply put, makes them easy to make in quantity and overcome even the better debuff of a dried fish.
Things were different when we had the 4x4 inventory, maybe, as going around gathering was harder...not now.

Btw, i never said also that my approach is right for someone that plays 4 hours instead of half an hour, again it's easier to say that someone does not know, it's ignorant of the argument or do not understand, but that's a mediocre approach at best.

I've made a mathematical approach to the point, no results. Keep going like that, i've no gain in proving you're wrong, and no point in making that while the game and players are already making that point, having other players that just support the point because you are the developer won't make it right, instead make them sad :3

Go on, all it's fine and the sun shine! (well, not here, it's night now.)

[JohnCarver]

i'll give you one: every kind of low level food is better than dried fish, just because they're more abundant and easy to obtain, also easy to cook, that, simply put, makes them easy to make in quantity and overcome even the better debuff of a dried fish.

At this point I am going to just assume you are trying to troll I&I I guess. a Virginia snail, a hickory nut, and countless other low level foods are in no way better than dried fish. I'm going to politely request you stop trolling this thread as you may confuse newer players into thinking a cranberry is a better food to spam for points than a dried ghostfish. If you had reasonable concerns about the food, I think they have been addressed. You are now armed with the knowledge as to what scenarios this food is better. If you don't find yourself in those scenarios, then it won't be the food for you anyway.

[lachlaan]

JC is not suggesting a meal consisting solely of dried fish. He is suggesting that a crapton of fish during a really long session is quite possibly the best thing you could have, as it is efficient top-up food for proccing gluttony events. I personally was too lazy to dry fish and did it with some other low tier stuff, but it was gruelling to spam 5 fries every other point, and tbh some dried fish would've been epic.


The point is to not overshoot glutton points per glutton event, not waste any sort of debuff on finishing off a point and thus having a wide variety (among which dried fish) of foods to get to your set's maximum potential.

At best you could argue that the time it took to dry the fish was horrible before, or that racks are too bulky to effectively produce enough food for a lot of characters in a town, but I'm not sure how the drying timers were tweaked since last i played.