Fundamentals?

[Procne]

I think gluttony is ok, besides on thing:
Basically,
I don't like the fact the it is possible to build one-man army self-sufficient superhero here that is 100 times stronger than a newbie (The Chief had > 1000 biles).
Why this is bad? Salem is sandbox game mmo game, most of the fun is from player to player interaction.
But if you have 1000 biles and all the skills:
1.Why do you need soldiers if you a one man army?
2. Why group and make town if you are master of everything?

So much misinformation...
1. Chief didn't have 1000 biles
2. 1000 bile char isn't 100 stronger than a newbie, because of diminishing returns. Damage done is a function of square root of yellow bile / phlegm. Char with 100x more yellow bile would deal around 10x more damage. In most MMOs max level char is thousands times stronger than a newbie but it's not a big deal
3. 1000 bile char needs "soldiers" simply because number of people > number of biles. 2 people with 500 biles > 1 person with 1000 biles. Because of diminishing returns in damage calculation and better ability to stun the enemy.
4. "Why group and make town if you are master of everything?" - do you even play this game?

[Kandarim]

I can't be bothered to read the entire thread, but here's my fifty cent:

1

Did you chop 100 trees today and some other guy used ALL of them for board piles which went towards some building you didn't even want?

I just cannot believe that you have identified a problem of "lazy townmembers who simply consume more of the 'work' than they contribute" and attempt to fix it by turning Salem into another skill-grinding game. You have at your hands one of the most unique progression mechanic and you are considering streamlining it into another soulless mechanic used in almost every other game...

Yes! If you have a leeching townie then perhaps you need to deal with them! This from someone who could easily be considered a "lazy townie". The proficiency system is a unique system that doesn't promote botting by a relatively soft time-gate (potions and the relative high rate at which inspiration refills combined with the food cost of studying).

2
As to the gluttony, I have made clear before that I was a much bigger fan of the old system, even if I did not use either of them to the fullest. The old system promoted the spamming of single recipes, whereas the current system ends up forcing the spamming of 2-3 recipes (perhaps with the exception of those that know the system to the fullest).

Haven lovers
On a side note, the first system is basically the old LP system from HnH, which was taken out of that game for a reason, and the second system is awfully much like the praying in HnH, which I did admittedly never used much because I never played early on a server. But its absurd randomness always annoyed me.

[Thor]

Actually no, Chief had +1000 biles in Plymouth and several others had too. It was possible back then and it's possible now.

[pietrko]

1. Chief didn't have 1000 biles

Well check post above or wiki - he had.

2. 1000 bile char isn't 100 stronger than a newbie, because of diminishing returns. Damage done is a function of square root of yellow bile / phlegm.

1000 vs 10 means 10x times more damage. Blood bile is linear. So 10 times dmg, and 100 times the hp. Which would make overall power difference factor equal to 1000 = 10 * 100
I'm aware of that and I'm very happy that's is sqrt and not linear.
Still is little too much if you ask me, I would change sqrt(x) to (1-1/x)

In most MMOs max level char is thousands times stronger than a newbie but it's not a big deal

Most MMOs suck and are grinding heaven, we talking about Salem, it may be not a big deal to you but it is to me - thats why I don't play other mmos.
To me existence of such huge differences make segmentation in player communities and serve as excuse for not bringing varied gameplay experience.
Why make new ways of interaction with world if you can just rename the skills, increase level cap and let the players chase the numbers.
Most MMOs are about progression and jumping from one level to next one - whereas the gameplay possibilities are the same. You sometimes even can't feel that your char is more powerful coz your environment scales with you.

So on every lvl you play the same game, do the same stuff (grind), only with other number stamped on your ass (lvl).
What I'm proposing is to slightly flatten the late-game player character progression and therefore encourage advanced players to move their rivalries into the the field of server's politics, economy etc - not the char progression
Again chief example - he created the most powerful faction on server which which lead to interesting events, but the the fact he had 1000 biles and could KO anyone wasn't fun at all, the fun came from the fact he was a leader able to group people.
I just wonder if there would more "chiefs" if you didn't have to chase those 1000 biles.

Keep in mind that's only mine opinion, you clearly have yours.
From my experience large differences in player's characters doesn't promote player-to-player interaction but instead make players focused on progression and lead to more single-player experience.

I'm new to Salem, but I played other MMOs.

"Why group and make town if you are master of everything?" - do you even play this game?

This is of course an exaggeration.
Yes I do play this game.

Well ,this went a little offtopic sry for that.

[Judaism]

John, why do you always end up making the game easier to progess over time. I feel that both of those idea's will result in that once again.

[Darwoth]

1. Chief didn't have 1000 biles

Well check post above or wiki - he had.

2. 1000 bile char isn't 100 stronger than a newbie, because of diminishing returns. Damage done is a function of square root of yellow bile / phlegm.

1000 vs 10 means 10x times more damage. Blood bile is linear. So 10 times dmg, and 100 times the hp. Which would make overall power difference factor equal to 1000 = 10 * 100
I'm aware of that and I'm very happy that's is sqrt and not linear.
Still is little too much if you ask me, I would change sqrt(x) to (1-1/x)

In most MMOs max level char is thousands times stronger than a newbie but it's not a big deal

Most MMOs suck and are grinding heaven, we talking about Salem, it may be not a big deal to you but it is to me - thats why I don't play other mmos.
To me existence of such huge differences make segmentation in player communities and serve as excuse for not bringing varied gameplay experience.
Why make new ways of interaction with world if you can just rename the skills, increase level cap and let the players chase the numbers.
Most MMOs are about progression and jumping from one level to next one - whereas the gameplay possibilities are the same. You sometimes even can't feel that your char is more powerful coz your environment scales with you.

So on every lvl you play the same game, do the same stuff (grind), only with other number stamped on your ass (lvl).
What I'm proposing is to slightly flatten the late-game player character progression and therefore encourage advanced players to move their rivalries into the the field of server's politics, economy etc - not the char progression
Again chief example - he created the most powerful faction on server which which lead to interesting events, but the the fact he had 1000 biles and could KO anyone wasn't fun at all, the fun came from the fact he was a leader able to group people.
I just wonder if there would more "chiefs" if you didn't have to chase those 1000 biles.

Keep in mind that's only mine opinion, you clearly have yours.
From my experience large differences in player's characters doesn't promote player-to-player interaction but instead make players focused on progression and lead to more single-player experience.

I'm new to Salem, but I played other MMOs.

"Why group and make town if you are master of everything?" - do you even play this game?

This is of course an exaggeration.
Yes I do play this game.

Well ,this went a little offtopic sry for that.

oh god here we go again.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15470

[Vexus]

noob noob noob noob...

Look I'm not gonna derail - this thread should be about Inspirational changes and Gluttony changes. But pietrko I want to let you know that there IS a soft cap on how 'big' you can get. What this means is as you get higher in humours, your rate of increasing humours slows down. It is pretty high as well. This means if you are growing your character you can catch up to someone who has been playing longer. It may take someone at 1000 humours who is by himself a few weeks to get enough stuff together to get a few points. Your increase from 200 to 300 humours is much greater than his increase from 1000 to 1010 humours. It begins to plateau at some point, and it is like that by design.

Not to mention that if you decide to go on a 4 day vacation, someone can come in and Trial By Fire your town, destroy your Town Bell, put up their own, and the next time you log on you lose your 1500 humour character who can 'do it all' and is a 'God' just because you logged on, surrounded by a makeshift fence, unable to destroy it due to town mechanics. So yeah, you're not safe just because of humour level. There is a huge underlying system of survival to this game which isn't even tied to the actual game itself. That is why...

...the gluttony system can be changed. Because making it less grindy in terms of numbers (why would you want to eat 1000 Deviled Beavers rather than an assortment of delectable treats?) while still maintaining the current frequency of being able to do large sessions, and also addressing the ability for newer players to see a steady progression which makes them confident they can fight a deer within the first week is pretty good.

Edit:

I just wonder if there would more "chiefs" if you didn't have to chase those 1000 biles.

Look man, a single character with 100 humours can kill another player with 1000, and yes in the open world with current mechanics. Just because you don't know how, doesn't mean it isn't possible, please play some more and get more experience.

[Lallaith]

i'm a bit concerned about the proposed gluttony changes. gluttony has always been one of my very most favorite things in salem and is one of the reasons i love this game. Some of it sounds pretty awesome, like all foods being relevant and especially sitting down at the table to eat with my friends or alts but i worry we'll lose the best things about the system we have now. what i really love about the current system is that long sessions are so fun! i really enjoy them. And the other main thing is that there are enough viable gluttony strategies that people can find what works best for them. ok so too often this is deviled beavers lol but i see people doing different things and loving them.

would this new cravings system's options to re-roll cravings and influence what cravings are generated be enough to still allow for much diversity in gluttony strategies? Will we be forced to just glutton a little here and there, waiting on the right cravings unless we're willing to prepare many many different recipes including ones we don't enjoy making? For most people, i think there are plenty of recipes they can find enjoyable to produce a lot of, as well as a lot of recipes that are just a pain in the ass and not fun at all. So just how much control over these cravings would there be?

[Vexus]

i'm a bit concerned about the proposed gluttony changes. gluttony has always been one of my very most favorite things in salem and is one of the reasons i love this game. Some of it sounds pretty awesome, like all foods being relevant and especially sitting down at the table to eat with my friends or alts but i worry we'll lose the best things about the system we have now. what i really love about the current system is that long sessions are so fun! i really enjoy them. And the other main thing is that there are enough viable gluttony strategies that people can find what works best for them. ok so too often this is deviled beavers lol but i see people doing different things and loving them.

would this new cravings system's options to re-roll cravings and influence what cravings are generated be enough to still allow for much diversity in gluttony strategies? Will we be forced to just glutton a little here and there, waiting on the right cravings unless we're willing to prepare many many different recipes including ones we don't enjoy making? For most people, i think there are plenty of recipes they can find enjoyable to produce a lot of, as well as a lot of recipes that are just a pain in the ass and not fun at all. So just how much control over these cravings would there be?

I kind of read your first paragraph as sarcastic =/

What does it matter to have long or diverse sessions when each food type has items with basically the same proc/gluttony value item? Kind of boring if you ask me. Long sessions are fun in that you are making progress, but that progress came at the cost of grinding hundreds of the same food type.

I believe the craving system would be as follows: let's say you are craving a Turkey Sandwich but you don't have one. Your craving doesn't 'go away', it's just there. You can then take the time to make a Turkey Sandwich if you can. If you cannot, you can eat any item in the Poultry food group to gain a point. If you happen to have one and eat a Turkey Sandwich, you would then trigger another craving of another food, and continue the chain as long as you can, with gluttony bonuses, and so on.

Also, in terms of raiding, how boring to raid and find someone has 300 berries on a straw? But raiding a large town might mean hundreds of diverse foods to glutton upon. That makes food worth raiding for. Love it.

[Lallaith]

i'm a bit concerned about the proposed gluttony changes. gluttony has always been one of my very most favorite things in salem and is one of the reasons i love this game. Some of it sounds pretty awesome, like all foods being relevant and especially sitting down at the table to eat with my friends or alts but i worry we'll lose the best things about the system we have now. what i really love about the current system is that long sessions are so fun! i really enjoy them. And the other main thing is that there are enough viable gluttony strategies that people can find what works best for them. ok so too often this is deviled beavers lol but i see people doing different things and loving them.

would this new cravings system's options to re-roll cravings and influence what cravings are generated be enough to still allow for much diversity in gluttony strategies? Will we be forced to just glutton a little here and there, waiting on the right cravings unless we're willing to prepare many many different recipes including ones we don't enjoy making? For most people, i think there are plenty of recipes they can find enjoyable to produce a lot of, as well as a lot of recipes that are just a pain in the ass and not fun at all. So just how much control over these cravings would there be?

I kind of read your first paragraph as sarcastic =/

What does it matter to have long or diverse sessions when each food type has items with basically the same proc/gluttony value item? Kind of boring if you ask me. Long sessions are fun in that you are making progress, but that progress came at the cost of grinding hundreds of the same food type.

I believe the craving system would be as follows: let's say you are craving a Turkey Sandwich but you don't have one. Your craving doesn't 'go away', it's just there. You can then take the time to make a Turkey Sandwich if you can. If you cannot, you can eat any item in the Poultry food group to gain a point. If you happen to have one and eat a Turkey Sandwich, you would then trigger another craving of another food, and continue the chain as long as you can, with gluttony bonuses, and so on.

Also, in terms of raiding, how boring to raid and find someone has 300 berries on a straw? But raiding a large town might mean hundreds of diverse foods to glutton upon. That makes food worth raiding for. Love it.

no no no. long sessions are fun, its fun to make a lot of the foods i like making. the situation you describe sounds like the least fun thing ever. raiding for food? ugh