I may be back

[Procne]

Well, this is quite ironic. Devs wanted to create hardcore pvp crafting / building sandbox and the crafting / building part turned out to be much more original and entertaining than most of the games that are oriented solely around it. There really isn't any non-pvp alternative when it comes to other games.

Someone may say that those non-pvp supporters would quickly get bored without permadeath. Personally, I don't think they would get bored any faster than with permadeath, at least I wouldn't - if someone is not interested in pvp at all then lack of it won't make the game more boring. I have always played H&H until I got bored or until I got raided, without any pvp on my part.

Anyway, it's obvious that PvP and permadeath won't be removed totally, but maybe someday devs, or Paradox, decide to make a single world for carebears.

[darnokpl]

OP has a point, while i don't like crafting only, a server WITHOUT permadeath (maybe ko with x loss of humours & proficiency's) would give people who are not a fan of permadeath, the experience of the game, and maybe let them move on (new character) to a server WITH permadeath on a later stage.

You can only gain more players this way, but seeing some replies, some people want this to be their own game, with a max of 100 players, with their own rules...

I know of at least 10 RL friends who wouldn't mind playing this so called Non-Permadeath-Server before joining the real stuff.

I like this idea, it could be like training camp for newbies.

You can also change black skills tree just like I suggested in I&I and add "Cripple" skill before cain and abel and make murder much more expensive 90+ c&d.
Maybe after each murder criminal character should suffer loss of humors for some time too.

[Gacrux]

OP has a point, while i don't like crafting only, a server WITHOUT permadeath (maybe ko with x loss of humours & proficiency's) would give people who are not a fan of permadeath, the experience of the game, and maybe let them move on (new character) to a server WITH permadeath on a later stage.

You can only gain more players this way, but seeing some replies, some people want this to be their own game, with a max of 100 players, with their own rules...

I know of at least 10 RL friends who wouldn't mind playing this so called Non-Permadeath-Server before joining the real stuff.

I like this idea, it could be like training camp for newbies.

You can also change black skills tree just like I suggested in I&I and add "Cripple" skill before cain and abel and make murder much more expensive 90+ c&d.
Maybe after each murder criminal character should suffer loss of humors for some time too.

I like the idea of a much harsher crime debuff.

But then again that would have to be based off how many people play vs raids ya know?

[harflimon]

While I don't see any fun in this game without the threat of PvP permadeath, part of me feels like if there is going to be multiple servers you might as well give the carebears a server. Perhaps there is no PvP deaths, but if you don't login for a long time you start aging and eventually die? I don't know, but there still needs to be some type of permadeath to keep things interesting. Otherwise there would eventually just be a bunch of maxed out characters sitting around waiting for the next patch so they can craft a new pair of pants. I can't think of anything lamer, though that might be something other people actually enjoy?

[Sevenless]

This genre of game can be done without permadeath, but Salem will not be that game. Try A Tale in the Desert, or Wurm if you're interested in PvE only servers. Salem is the only MMO of this type that does permadeath, and it is a niche for that reason. Oh! I wouldn't really suggest it honestly, but Xsion is also out there. The sub fees are harsh and keep the population very low as a result.

Minecraft is also a quasi MMO version of this genre (it's based off a simplified concept taken from Wurm actually).

Good luck on your journey, and fare thee well.

[Potjeh]

"He who defends everything defends nothing." - Frederick II

There are multiple non PvP crafting games on the market, trying to capture that market would simply water the game down and result in a failure with the PvP crowd. Non-PvP, on the other hand, doesn't stand much chance as a newcomer on an established market.

[Procne]

Otherwise there would eventually just be a bunch of maxed out characters sitting around waiting for the next patch so they can craft a new pair of pants. I can't think of anything lamer, though that might be something other people actually enjoy?

I can see this happening on any server as it ages, and PvP won't fix it. See how H&H world looks like after x months. And there world was reset only when server crashed, which probably won't happen here. There will be maxed out characters anyway. At some point there will be a single superior faction, 100% purity seeds and metal being sold almost for nothing. The world will become stagnant sooner or later.

But thanks to permadeath players can make their playtime more interesting by murdering some noobs, destroying their looms, stealing their tumbleweeds and writing about this on forum, true.

Anyway, it's not about removing pvp from people who love it so much, but to give some alternative to people who hate pvp.

This genre of game can be done without permadeath, but Salem will not be that game. Try A Tale in the Desert, or Wurm if you're interested in PvE only servers. Salem is the only MMO of this type that does permadeath, and it is a niche for that reason. Oh! I wouldn't really suggest it honestly, but Xsion is also out there. The sub fees are harsh and keep the population very low as a result.

Minecraft is also a quasi MMO version of this genre (it's based off a simplified concept taken from Wurm actually).

Good luck on your journey, and fare thee well.

Sadly, Wurm and Tale in the Desert are quite boring. The first one is a game about progress bar watching with not-so-well-thought economy and lacks interesting mechanics / character progression. Tale in the Desert is no longer developed (since 2010?), world is empty as most people have already left, it's a grindfest as well, and on top of that it costs 15$ per month. I tried Xsyon free trial couple of days ago - first thing I was supposed to do was to grind couple of dozens useless items (grass thread?) to learn another recipe (grass twine?) for new item that I can use to grind another recipe (grass something) to finally learn something useful (a basket). If that was the start, then how big of a mindless grindfest is it later? Plus, judging by the wiki the only things you can do there is craft baskets, build some walls, hunt and pvp.
Minecraft is very shallow, it's more of a modding tool, than actual game. I tried Mortal online, Dawntide, Vanguard and Istaria as well - huge disappointments.

Really, no other game has as good economy and crafting system as H&H had (and Salem now). So I will hope that maybe someday there will be non-pvp world. Until then (or rather until I'm raided) I will keep playing and try to avoid any PvP

[darnokpl]

Maybe Devs should open non-pvp server and pvp server and observe which got more players online after month or two?

It could be interesting experiment, but imho before server start you should send notifications to those 4k players with detailed information
If experiment fails you can always shut down server:)


EDIT: @Procne you are right, any other crafting MMO I tried was much less interesting than HnH or Salem, main cause of that was character development and building freedom, there isn't any in other games :/

[L33LEE]

I support a non pvp world, which has no interaction with a pvp world (No multi server support), however i doubt i would ever play on it.

I look at it from the point of view of how diablo works and its "hardcore" player base. 99% of the dediacted hardcore player base started as normal / softcore players and after time become bored without the challenge of loosing your character forever and moved to hardcore. Salem is a very neich heavy pvp perma death built around a great crafting / construction mmo engine (If not the best imho currently on the market), however if in my opinion they want to grow into a bigger game with a huge player base they would need to open a non pvp world and over time some of the people will move to the pvp worlds making them larger in size player wise then this game being solely pvp worlds only. (They would also have x2 or bigger playerbase from non pvp worlds, and none of this will stop the pvp world from ever growing from the pvp dedicated / hardcore players).

This is my opinion on how i feel the game can develop into something very big, with alot of players and make some nice revenue for the devs, but it is their game its upto them how they want things run.

Good luck to them and this game, i do not want to play a game in 3months+ time with only 50 players, if that is the current state of the game then, i can assure you i will not be here, unless there is a good 250-500 actives.

[Potjeh]

The main issue is that a proper non PvP server would take a metric ***** of effort, and it'd be unrecognizable as the same game in the end. You can't simply take the current game and remove the black skills, because it'd be a griefer's paradise. It wouldn't take long before every settlement's gates were blocked with unassailable walls, for example.