Stocking up on Tears

[Yes]

I do feel it would be nice if the QQ would drain slowly over time, or perhaps drain with work. It seems silly that you need to eat in order to be thirsty again, as you can go much longer without food than you can without water. I love the QQ for the most part, It just doesn't make sense to me that you need to glut in order to lower it. Maybe making it so simply eating food to replenish humors would lower the QQ as well. For me, I have a number of characters who I am happy with their current humors, and for now, have no intention of raising them, for these characters, QQ doesn't work, and doesn't make sense.

No one's asking you to use qnq.

[tweenprinc3ss]

No one's asking you to use qnq.

Thanks for the brilliant response. Keep up the great posting.

[kai]

To be able to glutton should require a High QQ, when you glutton it would then reduce QQ as you need the water to digest food. Any manual work that requires Phlegm also should drain from the QQ.

[JohnCarver]

I have to say that wood pile burning time is good for mining but not when you are in the wild hunting and doing basic cooking. And also crack the rock using only heat not always posible, but you can crack that with heat + cold water. I suggest keep the old pile burning time or maybe increase it but use water on wood pile in order to crack rock wall. How about that?

Yes, The quicker woodburning pile is not here to stay. It is here to 'test' if I like the new speed in which things happen. If I do, we will probably come up with some 'other' mechanic for the final implementation.

I do feel it would be nice if the QQ would drain slowly over time, or perhaps drain with work. It seems silly that you need to eat in order to be thirsty again, as you can go much longer without food than you can without water. I love the QQ for the most part, It just doesn't make sense to me that you need to glut in order to lower it. Maybe making it so simply eating food to replenish humors would lower the QQ as well. For me, I have a number of characters who I am happy with their current humors, and for now, have no intention of raising them, for these characters, QQ doesn't work, and doesn't make sense.

The QQ was ENTIRELY designed to combat this. We found that too many players reached a humor that they were 'happy' with and decided to abandon the entire gluttony system once reaching it. I didn't find this reasonable and the QQ is serving its purpose quite nicely as something that will make you indeed Gluttony at least once a week or so if you are an avid Drink user. As for other implementations of it. Sure. It makes more sense to me that you become 'dehydrated' if you don't drink. The longer you go without drink the more and more dehydrated you get which comes with some nasty penalties. Then the QQ itself removes those penalties along with giving the buff before slowly slipping away and making you dehydrated again.

We purposely did NOT go with something that 'makes sense here'. Just as it doesn't 'make sense' that instead of slowly becoming hungry and eating for survival you 'gain permanent strength' for stuffing your face with impossible quantities of food.

Sometimes a mechanic feels 'more fun' when you go the road less traveled. Drinks was one of these mechanics. Given that we have no intention of introducing "Shamans" who are going to run around casting "Buffs" on the whole population with their "Mana" like your traditional MMO it felt nice that we could implement one core mechanic that utilized this design space.


Armed with this knowledge you can now see two things that are important to us.

#1: Players are FORCED to use the gluttony system if they want to continually use the Hydration system.
(Any removal of the QQ through other means would make this not true).

#2: Players are NOT FORCED to use the Hydration system. If you never ever want to drink a thing, you still don't have to. You will just be missing out on some good buffs.
(Any system that forces you to have QQ before Gluttony would indeed make the FF system 'dependent' on QQ and not the desired other way around).

All suggestions in the future should make sure that #1 and #2 are intact, or else they run the risk of being immediately discarded .

[svablas]

Yes, The quicker woodburning pile is not here to stay. It is here to 'test' if I like the new speed in which things happen. If I do, we will probably come up with some 'other' mechanic for the final implementation.

...actualy it could be done and without pile of wood if you want speed mining, but at the cost of phlegm...

[Taipion]

Woah, I did not see that coming!

I am quite surprised, Mr. JC, about what you believe!

You don't like it how people are using (or better say, not using) the gluttony mechanic, and how they are happy with it?!
Why would you want to dictate players how they have to have fun?! I really don't get that part!

I, too, have alts, and probably at some point I would say their humors are fine, and would leave it at that, and never gluttony again with those alts.
Unless some mechanic forces me to do that, well, you see that point? Who likes to be forced to do something, not to say forced to change something that they like as it is?

The main point here is: How good is a mechanic if you need to force people to use it?


Constructive part:

Easy fix:
- QQ gets reduced by FF, not only by stat-points gained, though gained points give bonus reduction of QQ
- optionally make QQ decay slowly over time

More ambitious fix:
(if you really want to force gluttony)
- add a buff/debuff for food (how full / hungry a character is)
- that (very) slowly ticks down and does both good and bad things, depending on how high the "fill-level" is
- it is filled up only marginally with "normal eating" of food, and really good with gluttony, giving bonus for raised stats in the process
- if full, or hungry, good / bad things could occur, like:
- biles regenerate/degenerate slowly
- inspiration gain rate changes
- slower/faster movement
- ...pretty much anything you can think of, in appropriate (balanced) amounts
- QQ gained should reduce FF, how about alcohol for much QQ gained and FF lost for vivid gluttoneers ?!
- QQ can decay slowly by time as it is not required anymore
That way, you would have to fill up every now and then to just survive.
... but well, you see where this is going, right?



On a sidenote:
Nice that this woodpile burn duration is only for testing, and we will probably have the old piles back and some other item for mining, or well, something like that, IF it turns out to be good.
But as someone just mentioned, there is actually no need for piles of wood anymore if they are burnt down in 1 minute anyway.

[JohnCarver]

The main point here is: How good is a mechanic if you need to force people to use it?

Nobody is forced to use QQ.

Your suggestions void the two criteria I laid out earlier. And as stated earlier. We think that a 'hunger' and 'thirsty' meter is boring, bland, and too realistic. We prefer this mechanic where the buffs play off each other but still give the players the flexibility to choose which ones to use, if any.

[Taipion]

The main point here is: How good is a mechanic if you need to force people to use it?

Nobody is forced to use QQ.

Your suggestions void the two criteria I laid out earlier. And as stated earlier. We think that a 'hunger' and 'thirsty' meter is boring, bland, and too realistic. We prefer this mechanic where the buffs play off each other but still give the players the flexibility to choose which ones to use, if any.

Yes, I read your 2 criteria, but I felt the detail was necessary, sorry!

Do you, on the other hand, realize that you try to dictate how players should have fun?

I ask you again: How good is a mechanic, if you need to force players to use it?

...restricting a totally overpowered buff to players who play like you want them to play, is actually forcing them! Just in case you were going to say that no one has to use it.


[edit:]
I don't want to start an endless discussion here, Your time is better spent on coding the game than reading all my posts!
I just had to make sure that you are aware of these circumstances.

[JohnCarver]

Sure.

Monopoly could also dictate that when you roll the dice you could instead choose to just sit still instead of moving your token.

Games create a set of rules on HOW you play the game in the way the game was designed to be played. Your character, if he chooses to enjoy the luxuries of consuming liquid, is also forced to consume foods. If you have fun drinking a neverending supply of liquid (and never consuming food as a result) then this is not the developer encroaching on some perceived level of freedom. This is the developer stopping you playing the game 'wrong' and arguably exploiting a mechanic in a way it was not intended.

And before you get into some philosophical discussion about how you cannot play 'wrong'. Yes. There are 'right' and 'wrong' ways to play every game. The developer then creates the rules & mechanics to make sure players have as many 'right' ways as possible while still protecting the integrity of the experience they want the players to share. Running around with no real incentive to 'eat' was never intended. QQ is a small and very nice step towards making sure players always have that incentive without forcing them to do it.

[Taipion]

You can make the game anyhow you want!
It is that simple!
You can make the games rules however you want, too.

The thing you should have in mind most, as it is a game, is how players have fun, in the long run, and yes, this can mean to force them to do one thing to gain another, this can also mean to not do what the players want, as it would ruin the fun in the long term.

Still, I am not happy with things as they are now, and I am probably not the only one.