Witchcraft

[Lusewing]

(Please note, this is me pouring my thoughts onto paper, I am very certain that the Developers have their basic plans for witchcraft sorted, however, I would like to get a discussion with ideas flowing since it is unlikely that the developers are able to trickle much information on such a secretive subject.)

With witchcraft fully in our minds due to current events, I find myself wondering on the implications and gameplay changes their addition will make to Salem. A few key features I feel are:

*Witchcraft should be complex to get rather than difficult, though still require a lot of time and effort.
*It should be fun more than influential, their spells should not lead to better characters and growth, simply fun gameplay for those that enjoy the witchcraft mechanics.
*It should not be a natural progression in gameplay once you hit a certain stage, it should be a new path that you may to choose with both positives and negatives.
*Other players should not want to have a witch in their area.

The main factor I can see being a problem is other players not wanting a witch in their area, especially in their village. This is simply rectified with having a witch become something of a ‘troll’ player, with all their spells and abilities only benefiting them and not others. They should be the players who get joy from causing misery to others.

We have already seen the basic mechanic (which may or may not still be a feature) where a witch will curse and item or structure, such as a carpenter's bench or a furnace, to gain ‘mana’ whenever they are used, they can then spend the mana on spells such as flying on a broom. These curses may drain more humors and/or cause bad RNG’s, but not so much that it can always be pinpointed, something subtle that can always be explained as bad luck while also having the chance to make bad luck look like a curse. Other effects may be:

*Cursing/poisoning/draining a field for a quick burst of mana - we all know failed crops are the first sign of a witch.
*Costing a town bell more silver for being part of the village - maybe a silver for each spell since it would cause a witch to think before they acted so as not to draw attention, adding silver to the bell would hide this fact but they might prefer to take the risk.
*Sick animals? Cursing a pregnent animal so that its baby is lower Ather?
*Causing less animals (both darkness and normal) to spawn in the area, reducing successful hunts. No village wants this to happen. - cant find a bear? There must be a witch around here!
*Casting a spell to posses an animal they come in contact with, gaining mana if they knock other players out. This would leave the witch’s character vulnerable and in the world as they ‘hunt’ - a big risk but with big rewards. If balanced so that it costs enough mana that alt killing would not be worth anything it could be a lot of fun since the witch would have to almost ‘play the part’ or risk having other players search for them if they realized that 'this bear was a little too smart'. The animal, if killed, would not drop anything special, no rare loot like hearts or paws, thus preventing the abuse of using such a skill to make easy kills.
*A Glamour spell should let a witch gain the looks (not clothing) and name of another player for as long as their mana holds out - very useful for trolling and casting suspicions.

Negatives:
*Entering a church should drain a witch of all mana right away. Maybe even drain blood slowly.
*A 'witch finder* skill (very expencive) should give the ability to track spells with higher cost spells leaving longer lasting tracks.
*Useing iron tools should drain mana - iron is belived to be effective are stopping many magics.
*'Priests' should be able to bless items/structures to remove curses (Maybe at a a cost of a church's devotion, depending on how churchs end up working). Anything blesses will cost a LOT more mana to use/recurse for a witch.
*If a witch is without mana for a while they will lose the ability to cast more advenced spells till eventually they are no longer a witch. This is another reason for the witchcraft path to be complex rather then difficult making it a real hassel to return to witchcraft.

[fox]

very cool idea's

[KruskDaMangled]

very cool idea's

If it's so unspeakable, why are you talking about the Cult of Jorb? Either it's not that bad, or you broke the first Rule of the Cult

Anyhwhoooo, my thought is that any surrounding mechanics to it should be strongly rooted to the metaphysical conceit we are going with on how witchcraft works. If it really is diabolical, then iron for instance, would not have a particular effect, whereas Exorcist style things, might. (Iron is a Thing with fairies and what have you, which are all well and good, but don't really fit thematically so much. Salem is in the New World. The only awful things here are the ones that always were, or the Devil, ever following but a few footsteps behind man, ready to whisper evil in his ear.)

It makes me think it might be "Fun" to have a "mischief spell" that gave false positives on an enemy village, or otherwise lead to a (possibly weak) character being possessed. (Or hell, maybe a strong one.) They would sporadically unwillingly mess with day to day life either by emitting a noxious aura that drained humors, losing control/getting an interface screw/cackling evilly, and possibly messing with Devotion (assuming that's a fixed value related to player actions which "charges" a Church). If that was true, tainting a person or animal or perhaps even possessing them so they messed with that or even unpredictably caused mischief, maybe Fun. (Maybe just have Bad Stuff happen around them, like poltergeist activity, I.E. discreet events in which persons or property actually get injured by an in game entity, or a "drain/rot" abstracting the general rot and stress the spirit creates. I think the first is more fun though. Having a poltergeist/spirit actually fight with a priest would be fun. Just the picture of one of them furiously fleeing from one that was too strong for them especially.)

[DarkNacht]

*Other players should not want to have a witch in their area.

There are lots of tales of pagan towns supporting and benefiting from having a witch among them. Good Christian towns should not want a witch in their area, but if a town decides to turn from the holly path they should have no problem with it. They should not be causing harm to their town, unless they want to be, they should even be able to siphon the aether or good fortune out of other towns for the benefit of their town.

[Lusewing]

This is only my take on what witchcraft might be, sort of the full extream 'troll witch', I mostly wanted to get this topic out so that we can start getting ideas flowing.

I fully agree that in real world terms (and history) witchs are prohaps the nicest and most welcoming people you will ever meet, and all their bad press is very much down to religous groups turning them into their scape goats when bad things happened. This however is a game that hinges on drama and accusations, power struggles and backstabbing, clinging to those few people you would trust with your life to try and grasp at some small patch of ground to make a home.

The problem with having witch's being able to benafit towns, at the cost of maybe a little phlem here or some Ather on stuff you are going to toss out anyway, means that every town will have one. Witchs then become simply another profesion rather then a game feature that it has been advatised to be. How would you stop a witch from simply having bots that use a set up of cursed structures to gain mana then using the mana to help the village? If you make it so that the witch's spells are only useful to the witch, and in most cases only in a way that is simply 'fun' for them then they are unlikely to have the resorces to burn through to do such a thing - but in a village with other players they would.

The Iron idea is simply a thought on limiting a witch's usefulness, if only slightly. After all there should be deterents for every character to want to become a witch. It should be a choice that is hard to make, not something people should do on a whim.

[DarkNacht]

The problem with having witch's being able to benafit towns, at the cost of maybe a little phlem here or some Ather on stuff you are going to toss out anyway, means that every town will have one. Witchs then become simply another profesion rather then a game feature that it has been advatised to be.

Its should not be as simple as witches are good or bad for a town, it should be part of a larger system. Where a town decides to continue as a good Christian town, which should have some benefits or they turn their backs on the holy path and accept a witch, which would have different benefits. The town should only be at odds with the witch if the town does not want to turn its back on the holy path.

[Lusewing]

Its should not be as simple as witches are good or bad for a town, it should be part of a larger system. Where a town decides to continue as a good Christian town, which should have some benefits or they turn their backs on the holy path and accept a witch, which would have different benefits. The town should only be at odds with the witch if the town does not want to turn its back on the holy path.

Hmm that would lead to some intresting gameplay. A church would need to affect the witch more then in my suggestion, proberly draining mana simply from being in its radius, it would need to be large radius so that if the witch chose to live outside the village there would at least be the downside of having to travel a dictence to get to them (cant have it both ways without some downsides). A witch would also need to have spells and effects to attack/drain/disrupt 'church' towns other wise there would simply be no conflict or back and forth between magic and religion. The same would be for chruch towns being able to root out and deal with witch towns. Likely the available mana sorces would limit the number of witchs could be in a single town - maybe having it so that a highly organized town could support three so you can get the trinity going (Maid, Mother, Crone)

Certainly intresting but, i dont know, kinda takes the magic out of the possable witch game play offers if it ends up being only used to fuel town V town. These are of course only a few thoughts on how the gameplay might play out - how do you think it would work Dark?

[MarpTarpton]

Things I like:

- Curses, environmental and witch-caused
- Lower AEther being a functional result of cursing (not the only result, but since the AEther mechanic usually shows an increase or decrease, definitely something fun to play with)
- Glamours
- Witches as an unconventional, complex (great word for it) path not to be desired but available for those interested.
- Religion being the primary combatant for the effects of witchcraft (other than brute force, of course).

I don't think witchcraft should give characters an edge against the competition, at least not in the way of creating a more powerful entity. I do think having a friend who is a witch should have rewards but come at a price if the inherent "witch hunt" risk is not there. It would be nice if the witch's survival depended on her using curses in a similar fashion to any other form of upkeep, which would make it difficult to live in a town and not, on occasion, prey on your fellows to simply survive another day without losing biles (or something, lots of wiggle room there).

Either way, you guys get the gist of where we're at with the system. Witchcraft will probably be played close to the chest on the part of the team, but that doesn't mean we won't/don't take your suggestions to heart. And we will need to test these systems, so that might mean a healthy dose of witchery prior to official launch. Speaking from an aesthetic/lore stance, I intend to guide this part of development toward something that is dichotomous, involving both sides of the witch coin. So, be ye' a pagan worshipper of the Goddess and her antlered consort or a wretched hag seeking to boil the fat of Christian babies whilst reciting passages from the Dark Book, there will hopefully be a balance of mechanics to enjoy. I would emphasize though that being a witch will not be easy. You will be a target, survival will be difficult, and death will always be a spell away as the the age of reason threatens to dismiss your kind forever more.

[Lusewing]

Always good to hear a few little likes and dislikes from one of the people in charge but i understand its not something that you can really talk about least you risk the fun of discovery (Franklin is a great example of what player discovery can add to game play). I am especially excited to hear that you also like the glamour possibility. I am also very happy to hear you will be looking at all sides of witch history, myths and legends for inspiration. I look forward to sifting through the game lore and trying to work out where things might have been drawn from, though I don't think the one rule 'Do what thy will but harm non' will be something that makes its mark in Salem game play ^.*

So how about others? I would love to hear more players views on what they hope might make up witchery.

[trungdle]

on occasion, prey on your fellows to simply survive another day without losing biles (or something, lots of wiggle room there).

I demand vampire and werewolf!
Jk
Since you asked for more view. Here's mine :
Witchcraft should be something we can do in extra for our desires. People always associates witchcraft with love potion, poison, cannibalism, magic, convenience, et cetera. So I think we should make it like that. How? I don't know.