Map Size Fixes

[JohnCarver]

Interesting.

And what about this little guy we made.



What can he do?

[pistolshrimp]

I can't really see industrail buildings really working as gathering points. Who is going to want to put in that intial investment even if it's spread out the potential for loss is too great that it wouldn't be woth it. For instance lets say it was off claim, someone could come by and claim it and you'd have to fight or loss your investment. Say it can't be claimed then whats to keep a faction from camping it? You lose your investment and maybe your toon. What's to keep someong from stealing your stuff? With machinery on your own claim you can log out/leave your stuff, with these industrail buildings you'd have to wait until it finished or lose your stuff.

All you would see from this is large towns building them on their claim. That would be the end of that.

[JohnCarver]

I can't really see industrail buildings really working as gathering points. Who is going to want to put in that intial investment even if it's spread out the potential for loss is too great that it wouldn't be woth it. For instance lets say it was off claim, someone could come by and claim it and you'd have to fight or loss your investment. Say it can't be claimed then whats to keep a faction from camping it? You lose your investment and maybe your toon. What's to keep someong from stealing your stuff? With machinery on your own claim you can log out/leave your stuff, with these industrail buildings you'd have to wait until it finished or lose your stuff.

All you would see from this is large towns building them on their claim. That would be the end of that.

This is how I see it going down as well. But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise if players can give me solid examples of how these things would be a win/win.

[DarkNacht]

I think the problem is that none of you has been in or ran a collective neighborhood before. You would not have to make it immune to decay, you would of course claim it, likely with both a town claim and a P-claim, so you could give permissions without them having to join your town. You would build it out in front of your base where people could easily access it and give it some minor defenses, but you would have to accept that in the current system it would likely be the first to get hit in a raid unless it took many hours to break or if you could somehow build defenses into it. An industrial smelter would be next to a collectively managed mine and in the case of the saw mill you would likely have a collectively managed forest near by so people would not have to haul the trees to it.
You could also collectively work to get each of the buildings for one base and that person would be responsible for supplying the product to other members.

[JohnCarver]

And if you are going through the hassle of managing permissions for this, why would you not just make them town or trial members?

[DarkNacht]

And if you are going through the hassle of managing permissions for this, why would you not just make them town or trial members?

Not everyone wants to be in the same town. On JT I ran an area that at its peak had 4 towns and a half dozen other groups on p-claims, we all worked together and everyone followed my laws but each group wanted its own space, some of the towns even had separate p-claimed bases for sub-groups in them.

[Ukhata]

some people just really like to play on their own claim.

[JohnCarver]

some people just really like to play on their own claim.

You can have your own claim on a town claim though.

[agentlemanloser]

Anyway, yeah, the basic idea is that somebody builds an expensive building, neighbours use it because it's superior to the basic production facilities in one way or another, the owner gets a percentage of the production. Does this sound like something that'd work, JC?

I'm not opposed to these HUGE landmark buildings.

I also think they shouldn't decay so that players can leave them off claim and not have to bother with access.

I'm still skeptical that 'neighbors' are making the journey to them tho to do things and would like to see ideas for large expensive buildings that neighbors would travel to in order to use. Also I would want to know why the person who makes these buildings wouldn't just put them on their claim and keep them for themselves.

I think you might be onto a very interesting mechanic here, John Carver. Let me explain: much of the most recent archaeological evidence seems to suggest that civilization, at least in the sense of large groups of people cooperating, developed not because of agricultural needs but because of collective building projects. Gobekli Tepe is a good example: it appears to be a very large site of religious importance that long predates the agricultural revolution. At any rate, my point is that the kind of cooperation/conflict you desire in the game, historically, was driven not by purely material needs but by larger, abstract projects. So, "HUGE landmark buildings" might be a perfect motivator if implemented properly. Have your designer think back to the various people groups who worked to colonize (and those groups being colonized) and come up with a series of massive construction projects that can be either purely symbolic or functional. Consider a giant cathedral that sports an offering plate that, once an offering has been made, confers a 24-hour fear immunity. Consider giant animal-shaped mound tombs that can, through some consumable sacrifice, confer interesting buffs. These projects should be so costly that no individual or perhaps even small town could realistically complete one. As you say, they should not decay (but could be destroyed eventually by arson, perhaps). Such a project would push territorial control, since groups might want to control a landmark building, or tourism and commerce, since individuals might want to travel to the landmark village. In conjunction with a waypoint system, this would provide incentive to travel more. A giant slew of these, available to the extreme end professions (master mason, say) would add a great bit of complexity.

[JohnCarver]

Maybe all these are in the game and un-lockable with the lucky skill.


On a serious note, I do think these need to be go big or go home type things.

We had another system in place that might be better suited for this type of dynamic. I'll give it some thought.