The PVP MegaThread

[JohnCarver]

Greetings Salemites,
With the Purity patch being wrapped up & a stall solution being identified I'll go ahead make this thread to be the place you can discuss PVP related stuff. A new wall is dropping with the September patch, along with some changes to soak and Turret ranges. I'll update the Road map after the Purity Patch but Stalls will certainly be in October, which means that PvP patch is looking like it will certainly fall into either November or December.

Here is what we want with Salem PVP:

*Bases are not leveled to Nothing when there is a breach.
*Breaching a base is the largest investment of the raid process.
*Character with scents out are probably going to die.
*Characters with scents out are easier to kill than characters without.
*The Attacker gets the final say on who dies.

The last is the most important thing for players to come to terms with. The knee-jerk reaction is to simply say 'If I do XYZ then I shouldn't die'. Or, if the attacker does X then as a defender I should be able to do Y and live. etc. etc. etc.

That is the design strategy of almost every game I can think of. The strategy that the mechanic tug-of-war goes from attacker wins if, defender wins if, attacker wins if, defender wins if,. Notice how that ends on Defender wins if? This is not the future for Salem. We are making special note that in said tug-of-war the system ALWAYS ends with attacker wins if.

So to further that thought. Players who invest time in Salem earn the right to kill you. The more time they invest, the higher the target they earn the right to kill. I am ok with adjusting the punitive nature against the actions of criminals, but I am unwilling to listen to ideas that stem or breed from the mentality that Salemites earn the right 'not to die'.

This being understood, the best way to get me to read, listen, and respect your post is when it begins with:

'A Player should be allowed to break into my base & kill my character if he......"

I'll hypothetically answer this question for you in a few ways to get the discussion started:

'...is in the top 10% humors on the server'
'...has purchased a cannon that cost 5,000 silver'
'...has gotten a player to full membership status in my town'
'....has my scent'

ETC ETC.

So there you have it. I'll be spending the next 1-3 weeks reading your thoughts here before putting the final bow on the PVP design. You may also comment on additional systems, mechanics, and general nice things but please don't bother laying out something that doesn't fit the criteria above.

Thanks,
John Carver

[Dallane]

What happens if the attacker wins but no one is online and the loot was removed during the seige?

[DarkNacht]

What happens if the attacker wins but no one is online and the loot was removed during the seige?

If you let them hall out all of their purity pots and what not then you did a bad job sieging.

[JohnCarver]

What happens if the attacker wins but no one is online and the loot was removed during the seige?

Sounds to me like the attacker in fact did not win if he was too slow to get in before loot was removed, and not careful enough to ensure he had their scents before breaking in.

Sounds like this is a scenario where the attacker lost.

[RonPaulFTW]

Is there a difference in your mind between:

1.) Murdering someone without a scent
2.) Murdering someone with a scent

or put another way - is #1 a more serious crime that is easier to retaliate against?

[JohnCarver]

Is there a difference in your mind between:

1.) Murdering someone without a scent
2.) Murdering someone with a scent

or put another way - is #1 a more serious crime that is easier to retaliate against?

The only way I wish to differentiate this is through the skill required to do so:

#1: Difficult skill in which I expect many tears and complaints for how it is obtained.

#2: Easy skill obtainable by any 1-week old character.

[Dallane]

I love and hate the waste system. It was alot more interesting in HnH when you didn't know a siege was coming unless you checked your walls for a drying ram but pre waste getting into a base was ALOT easier. Hopefully with better walls and braziers we can get rid of the waste claims.

[ImpalerWrG]

2.) Murdering someone with a scent

#2: Easy skill obtainable by any 1-week old character.

Do you want this to extend to getting inside the base too? If it dose not then it is moot that a 1 week old character can actually perform the act of summoning, they will never be able to do so without the assistance of a built up character.

If actually having scent/evidence some how empowered a character to cut through defenses how would this be done and how could it not be nullified by some cheese like the criminal surrounding himself with the claims/lean-to's of alts?

[RonPaulFTW]

Are all the existing summon able scents today - equally useful to a one week character out for revenge? Can you be just as easily killed for stealing as waste as murdering?

[JohnCarver]

Are all the existing summon able scents today - equally useful to a one week character out for revenge? Can you be just as easily killed for stealing as waste as murdering?

Do you think there should be punishment-less-than-death for the lesser crimes?

With the material goods being so much more now adays, I'm less convinced that you couldn't do as much damage by stealing golden geese as you could a killing blow.