Justified Assault

[Uronoro]

That being said, I'm fairly certain that KOing someone in self defense is the only criminal act that doesn't leave a scent. *Fairly*, I haven't tested it myself and I actually have no idea where that thought even comes from. PLEASE TEST before assuming this is true XD.

If this does turn out to be true then that placates me a bit. I understand that they were wanting to making a dog-eat-dog game that could possibly bring out the worst in people. So far my worst has been claiming an unclaimed mine that quite obviously was about to be claimed, just to discourage settlement near my area. I know, I'm edgy (sarcasm meant, I'm a petrified wuss, I've yet to leave a crime scent, I'm lame like that, I tend to lean towards helping others instead of exploiting them because I am not fun). My views just get a bit twisted up when all through the game its hinted that crime is generally frowned upon and will probably shorten your character's life expectancy, whether in the use of scents to track criminals or just in the little descriptions of the more crime-oriented skills you can grind to. The crime debuff, too, hints of discouragement. Of course it doesn't stop crime; it probably makes the player even avid at wanting to beat the system.

I understand self-made criminals provide a facet to the game no AI enemy mob could fulfill. But if they continue with the crime debuffs and subtle hints at crime discouragement, it can't really be a morally neutral game. Not entirely. If they wanted that they should throw the crime debuffs to the wind (no burglar or assalent in real life suddenly feels magically weakened or a movement limit placed on them when they commit a crime), have more things than just crimes leaving scents of a player's whereabouts (foot prints, scents of recent campfire, scent of blood if injured or KO'd by an animal, these are morally neutral), and possibly set the game in a prehistoric society before any governmental law had been officially implemented. Where only the strong, smart, cautious, or brutally brazen survive.

As much as I love the indian summer of ye olde Salem, Massachusetts, it was not a time period of moral neutrality and light justice. At least that is certainly what the accused witches on the gallows will tell you. How it is set up now, there are possibilities for 'justice', which means there is a hint of law in the world of Salem. This thread was made out of the hope that self defense of body and property will be taken under consideration as non-crimes. The technicalities of it, whether murder should be excluded from the scent exemption, and so on, can be debated. They should be debated. That's what forums are for.

That's perhaps why I have come off defensively. I don't want my thread shut down or derailed just because other variants of this topic have cropped up in the past before I even got my beta key. I have my two cents as well, I want to talk about it.

[Dallane]

I understand self-made criminals provide a facet to the game no AI enemy mob could fulfill. But if they continue with the crime debuffs and subtle hints at crime discouragement, it can't really be a morally neutral game. Not entirely. If they wanted that they should throw the crime debuffs to the wind (no burglar or assalent in real life suddenly feels magically weakened or a movement limit placed on them when they commit a crime), have more things than just crimes leaving scents of a player's whereabouts (foot prints, scents of recent campfire, scent of blood if injured by animal, these are morally neutral), and possibly set the game in a prehistoric society before any governmental law had been officially implemented. Where only the strong, smart, cautious, or brutally brazen survive.

Start of last beta there was no crime debuff. We ran ***** wild in the game raiding nonstop. the criminal flag is there so it takes a hour or more to raid opposed to a few mins-hour depending on the place. It also gives a advantage to the defender for repairs and eating if they break combat.

[Uronoro]

Start of last beta there was no crime debuff. We ran ***** wild in the game raiding nonstop. the criminal flag is there so it takes a hour or more to raid opposed to a few mins-hour depending on the place. It also gives a advantage to the defender for repairs and eating if they break combat.

I find it interesting they put the crime debuff in if what everyone is saying is true about how the devs want innocents and criminals to be on even ground in a morally neutral society where everyone is at full risk of everyone else's whims.

Don't mistake that as me saying I don't like the debuff. Its the only thing that may keep me alive someday, especially if a safe self defense mechanism is never implemented. Just as some choose to be criminals; I choose not to be. But at the moment, the only thing I can do if a raid or murderer visits me is move claims or hire a sellsword. I would like a few more legal options.

[Dallane]

Start of last beta there was no crime debuff. We ran ***** wild in the game raiding nonstop. the criminal flag is there so it takes a hour or more to raid opposed to a few mins-hour depending on the place. It also gives a advantage to the defender for repairs and eating if they break combat.

I find it interesting they put that in if what everyone is saying is true about how the devs want innocents and criminals to be on even ground in a morally neutral society where everyone is at full risk of everyone else's whims.

Don't mistake that as me saying I don't like the debuff. Its the only thing that may keep me alive someday, especially if a safe self defense mechanism is never implemented. Just as some choose to be criminals; I choose not to be. But at the moment, the only thing I can do if a raid or murderer visits me is move claims or hire a sellsword. I would like a few more legal options.

Its sandbox. the justice is up for the players. B4 that flag was in rolling through a village was nothing and way 2 ez at the time. If i remember correctly jortar said the criminal system was a temp fix to keep players from rampaging until they could find something better or see how it worked out.

[masau]

Walls and Braizers/torchposts are your defense mechanism - That's far better than what existed in HnH (excluding impenetrable vaults) if I recall. You can't murder someone with them, but they can be ko'd and lose 24 hours of gameplay. By the time you could reliably fight back against an invader, you'll likely already have at least walls up.

[Uronoro]

Then I really just need to find out if KOing someone who attacks you leaves a scent or not. Something to do with my groupmates, perhaps.

[Dallane]

Then I really just need to find out if KOing someone who attacks you leaves a scent or not. Something to do with my groupmates, perhaps.

ya give it a try and see what happens and report back

[JeffGV]

Walls and Braizers/torchposts are your defense mechanism - That's far better than what existed in HnH (excluding impenetrable vaults) if I recall.

And since they don't scale up with players, they will be useless after some time, exactly as in H&H with palisades and palibashers. Not to talk about lifting items and scents, or alts. More than morally equal, this game is raider friendly.
Edit: did i forgot to mention the total lack of risk inherent to those defenses? Since the damage done by those is static, you just need some math to see what you can and you can't afford to do.

[staxjax]

They will never be useless. 10 black bile damage every 3 seconds is a lot. To escape from the middle of a fully brazier [original size] vclaim I would think you'd need to start your retreat at 50-70BB, and you'd need atleast that much to reach the center of the vclaim...so whats that, like 150-200BB to be able to even bother to bash down a wall in center of a claim that outputs maximum brazier damage throughout. Hopefully by the time people are able to get 200BB, we will see more walls and defense mechanics than what we have at the moment.

[Arillious]

Perhaps you should be able to arrest someone instead of killing them(KO and arrest)? Would obviously have to be thought out, IE where do you bring them once arrested and what happens.