Justified Assault

[Uronoro]

But killing...that should leave a scent. At most a decrease in the duration of the scent for murder the murdered individual had a scent.

I suppose murder could be seen as a bit of an extreme. I'm just envisioning a scenario where you have a repeat offender on your hands who will just not ****** off no matter how many times they assault/steal/waste what is yours. Then pulling out Cain and Abel may send the message. A modified murder scent, maybe? Maybe it could even be named differently, just "Scent of Murdered Criminal".

It wouldn't save you from revenge, but random players who play more as rangers may not scorn the scent as much as a normal "Scent of Murder," or, like you said, a shorter duration time for it.

[MagicManICT]

It's a morally neutral system and it was discussed to death both on the Paradox Plaza forums and has been discussed to death on the Haven forums. What you imply is that one murder is more correct than another, and there is no humanly possible way to determine this and a simple game mechanic isn't going to cut it.

Additional note: I'd direct you to those threads if I could recall them. If I remember this and trip across them, I'll post links here.

[Dallane]

lol wont happen dunno why we are still talking about this.

Because there is no rule to say I can not. I'm not sure what you mean by "still" talking, this thread has hardly left the first page. If you disagree then at least leave a few of your reasonings to make your post seem less spammy and trollish.

because this isn't the 1st thread talking about it.

I'm fairly sure that it will drop a scent if you KO someone. I thought it did the other day when i was sparing.

[Uronoro]

It's a morally neutral system and it was discussed to death both on the Paradox Plaza forums and has been discussed to death on the Haven forums. What you imply is that one murder is more correct than another, and there is no humanly possible way to determine this and a simple game mechanic isn't going to cut it.

Pardon me for being a noob then. But unless there is a rule specified that 'you can not debate the crime system in this game' and as long as there is a 'Ideas and Innovations' forum then I will debate it. If its been so widely discussed then I can't be the only one with an issue on it. I am in high disagreement with you; to me a random assault or murder of an unoffending player should be ranked as a higher crime than an assault or murder of a player as an outcome of self defense. I do find it humanly possible to judge between the two (because they do it in RL courts all the time) and it is not impossible to create a game mechanic that can differentiate between the two should the devs ever want to implement it (you just take into account whether the person being attacked already has a criminal debuff on them). Whether they do or not is their choice.

I do not think I am out of bounds of the forum rules here.

[MagicManICT]

Copping an attitude isn't going to win you any points around here. I'm mentioning the fact that it's a very old argument and that there's a lot to read up on that people don't want to repeat. I am trying to summon up in a short post my insights on it based on what I've read from the devs.

[Dallane]

It's a morally neutral system and it was discussed to death both on the Paradox Plaza forums and has been discussed to death on the Haven forums. What you imply is that one murder is more correct than another, and there is no humanly possible way to determine this and a simple game mechanic isn't going to cut it.

Additional note: I'd direct you to those threads if I could recall them. If I remember this and trip across them, I'll post links here.

didn't see this earlier gonna bump with this because its explains everything.

[Uronoro]

Copping an attitude isn't going to win you any points around here. I'm mentioning the fact that it's a very old argument and that there's a lot to read up on that people don't want to repeat. I am trying to summon up in a short post my insights on it based on what I've read from the devs.

I'm not trying to "win points." I'm just stating my views. I didn't see the latter half of your post because I was responding while you were editing that in. My freaking apologies. I'll go look at them.

[Tonkyhonk]

I know all the Haven'ers and griefers will now murder me for having suggested this. But it had to be said. I do not like it that the game considers rightful defense a scentable crime.

this comment alone is annoying, not the thread.

How so? Have I been ill-informed on the general disposition of haveners and griefers or is defending one's self annoying?

youve been ill-informed and/or paranoid. also, ignorant stereo-typing.

[Uronoro]

How so? Have I been ill-informed on the general disposition of haveners and griefers or is defending one's self annoying?

youve been ill-informed and/or paranoid. also, ignorant stereo-typing.

You have my apologies, then. I have seen the light that not all Haveners and Griefers are the same.

[Sevenless]

Were it anyone other than jorbtar, this idea might have merit and be worth discussing. However, jorb is very adamant in his beliefs. And the one that's relevant here is that everything we do is a crime against others. As such, anything criminal enough should leave a scent.

One thing I've said time and time again, Salem is more than just a game, it's an example of a rather small but existent MMO genre of sandbox crafting. A Tale in the Desert, Wurm, Haven and Salem are the only MMO versions of it that I'm aware of and are publicly available. Minecraft is a simplified descendant of Wurm (Notch was a co-founder of Wurm as well), but there's some key distinctions between multiplayer and MMO games.

Point is, Salem isn't everything in this genre, it can't satisfy everyone. Other variants of this genre will eventually come along to meet those needs, of that I'm certain. Especially since Minecraft is awakening people to similar gameplay to this genre.


That being said, I'm fairly certain that KOing someone in self defense is the only criminal act that doesn't leave a scent. *Fairly*, I haven't tested it myself and I actually have no idea where that thought even comes from. PLEASE TEST before assuming this is true XD

Note: I'm definitely a havener and I'm not a griefer. However, my morales are likely considered questionable to people who come from less brutal game types. The key difference is that I make decisions to ruin other people's game for personal gain or strategic advantage, not for personal pleasure. Raiding hermits is very profitable, and killing them is often an easy way to reduce the chance of them offering bounties on your head. You'd be surprised, but people still get incredibly pissed if you let them live and you're letting them have more tools to try and hurt you back with.