Your opinion about the Civil War in Ukraine

[naosnule]

How threatened is a sniper on top of a building? just saying....

Whether or not it was justified depends on the law. For instance if one member in a police team is being sufficiently threatened, it can be justified for another member of the team to snipe down the threat.

[Claeyt]

The Polish Border has been closed by protester's. The Canadians have closed their embassy in protest and half the Ukrainian Olympic team is going home in protest of government actions.

...about the snipers. Remember that none of the government police needed to be in harms way. If they had simply let the protesters peacefully occupy the government buildings they were in none of this would have happened.

[DemonEyes]

Oaky and let me peacefully walk into a bank and take all the money theres no need for a crime of any sort is there?

[naosnule]

The Polish Border has been closed by protester's. The Canadians have closed their embassy in protest and half the Ukrainian Olympic team is going home in protest of government actions.

...about the snipers. Remember that none of the government police needed to be in harms way. If they had simply let the protesters peacefully occupy the government buildings they were in none of this would have happened.

1st Question: would that "peaceful occupation" have been legal? Yes, in theory there are "peaceful occupations" that are not legal, depends on the law.

2nd Question: Was it illegal to attempt to remove the protesters?

[ysbryd]

I understand what you are saying about the police, stuck in the middle is not a comfortable place, but I believe that the police stormed the barriers? This situation is embarassing to the government, and so they feel they have to crush it. But still, guilty or not, surely that should be established by trial, and not by who stands still long enough to get picked off? And as far as I am aware, the protesters are armed with fire bombs and stones, surely protecting yourself from that only takes making your lines further than they can throw? A little different to live ammunition..
I am outside this situation, so I dont know enough about the politics to say who is right or wrong, I just feel that crushing opposition is a lose/lose situation. Talking is the only way, negotiating, finding compromise or changing repressive laws.

[Claeyt]

Picture of the Police using a molotov cocktail against protester's yesterday before the gunfire.

[Claeyt]

I understand what you are saying about the police, stuck in the middle is not a comfortable place, but I believe that the police stormed the barriers? This situation is embarassing to the government, and so they feel they have to crush it. But still, guilty or not, surely that should be established by trial, and not by who stands still long enough to get picked off? And as far as I am aware, the protesters are armed with fire bombs and stones, surely protecting yourself from that only takes making your lines further than they can throw? A little different to live ammunition..
I am outside this situation, so I dont know enough about the politics to say who is right or wrong, I just feel that crushing opposition is a lose/lose situation. Talking is the only way, negotiating, finding compromise or changing repressive laws.

I completely agree that negotiation is the key here. The Government won't agree to new elections because they know they would lose them. Yanukovich won this election through internationally documented election fraud. These Special Riot Police are a national unit under the control of Yanukovich. They are interior ministry employees not employees of any city or civil police department. The Interior ministry has a bigger budget than the military. They are being used as a personal weapon of Yanukovich.

[naosnule]

[
I completely agree that negotiation is the key here. The Government won't agree to new elections because they know they would lose them. Yanukovich won this election through internationally documented election fraud. .

Who should I believe, the Claegue or BBC news?

His reputation was tarnished by election abuses in 2004 but he bounced back later, winning the 2010 presidential election - an election declared clean by international observers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25182830

[DemonEyes]

I agree with you welsh spirit, Both sides are at fault during a civil disturbance, it takes desperate people to put their lives on the line to protest where the governemnt is overly suppressive or not working for the people. The police, soldier etc, are there to protect themselves and follow orders, it is not their place to decide whether or not to follow those orders, they just have to, for the sake of their comrades if nothing else.

The protestors have a choice, they have had it from the start, whether to attack those that are ordered to maintain peace and order, or to do as is required to avoid conflict. The police and army are in the position where they must do what they are told or lose their job, which could be the difference between life and death for them or their families. people gotta eat.

I am not for one side, or the other, I just think that the protestors side by using violence are in the most wrong as they have a much easier choice to make, to commit violence or not. Whereas the other side are forced to use violence against the violence they have to face. It may be too much violence, but they are pushed to use it, rather than the protestors choosing to use it.

[Claeyt]

1st Question: would that "peaceful occupation" have been legal? Yes, in theory there are "peaceful occupations" that are not legal, depends on the law.

2nd Question: Was it illegal to attempt to remove the protesters?

Non-legal political peaceful occupation is illegal but armed response is never the answer to that. We went through something very similar here in Wisconsin when 100,000 labor rights protesters occupied the State capitol for over a month. The Governor and Republicans wanted it cleared by force but the protesters were being peaceful. The City Police refused to participate. The County Sheriff refused to participate. The State Police in charge of the capital building with a small force decided to negotiate and eventually even the protesters were praising him. After the protest he moved on and to a new job and the governor hired a crony who immediately started arresting all protesters in the "peace singer" group who met for lunch every day. It's led to millions of dollars in lawsuits and a giant headache for the capital police.

This situation is similar in that Yanukovich demanded of the forces under his command to escalate the situation to show that he was in power. The exact opposite has happened and violence is the result.