A New Year for Salem

[Syndarn]

For injustices, see link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=885

Right. Valid reason. Could be more fun if there was a scenario where you had your borders.. and i was secretly hunting on tribe lands and got killed. But then again everything is tribe lands. So that scenario is not even possible in a way because you don't allow it.

Claiming to be a member of the MM Tribe does not simply make you a member of the MM Tribe. There is a vision quest process, something most do not live through, which allows you the freedom to roam Plymouth in sync with Mother Nature. I believe you could also apply to be a native sqaw, but our teepees may be full at the moment.

I didn't say id be a member of your MM Tribe. Perhaps another tribe that has yet to be named. Or just a hermit having the same beliefs as your MM Tribe.

Then congratulations! Plymouth is not for you! However, if you don't mind protection from us and the payment for said protection at a very reasonable cost, then you'll never find a better server in which to do all those other things.

No it's not. That's why i don't play there. Even if i did pay and got the right to walk around and have my leanto. There would not be anyone to sell my fish to or meet, or anything to discover out in the wilds because everything that has been or could be has already been demolished raided and murdered by the tribe, all hopes and dreams have been crushed by the native tribe who values coin and worldly material over life in the wilds.

[Tylan]

There would not be anyone to sell my fish to or meet, or anything to discover out in the wilds because everything that has been or could be has already been demolished raided and murdered by the tribe, all hopes and dreams have been crushed by the native tribe who values coin and worldly material over life in the wilds.

Well that escalated quickly. Don't you think you're probably exaggerating a little bit, seeing as you just admitted to not playing on Plymouth? Here, watch this and let it defuse that drama bomb rumbling in your tummy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shlh1i9 ... e=youtu.be

[Syndarn]

Well that escalated quickly. Don't you think you're probably exaggerating a little bit, seeing as you just admitted to not playing on Plymouth? Here, watch this and let it defuse that drama bomb rumbling in your tummy.

I should probably clarify that when i started playing salem roughly 3-4 months ago i did play on plymouth first. I was not even aware of the treaty at those times. I assumed it was a safe server but oh boy was i wrong. I ended up moving out to the darkness with 10 humour chars and started building my own place with a couple of friends. But one day i logged in and everything i had built was destroyed, wich wasn't much at those times. But the darkness made it very hard to do anything safely since running out of biles meant you got knocked out, and we were still figuring out how to do things properly.
I posted about it here. http://forum.salemthegame.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7857

Later my main got killed because Paul tricked me into logging in and check something. 15 biles vs 500 biles. Not hard to know what was gonna happen there. So in that way, yes you did crush my dreams at that time. Or well Paul did. Now i live quite happily on JT so far.

I don't really care what happened to me then, that's in the past. I just took this up to clarify things.

That aside. Maybe 2 out of 20 places where someone had built had any life on it, everything else was just ruins and skeletons. Lifeless desolate wasteland. I did travel quite alot and map a big area of the server though. So i believe i can safely say i know what i have seen and know what i am saying.

I don't really know what to say to you guys. I am trying to make you guys realise that plymouth could be much more than it is today, if you guys changed your rules and ways. It is probably gonna stay like this forever, until a reset or something. But hey you can't blame a guy for trying, even if it does feel kinda pointless from my view. It sounds like the tribe does not even want to listen or try to understand.

[Tylan]

All of the words

I remember that thread and my response still applies. However, I do personally appreciate your intention to improve the living quality of Plymouth, but you should know that living lawlessly on Plymouth is the same as living on other servers. These ruins you mention are because Plymouth was the first server to be played on and when the two others were created, most players stuck around on Plymouth until they quit or were encouraged to try their luck elsewhere.

More than anything else, the most effective tool of government is the illusion of omnipotence.

Plymouth will change when the players want it to change badly enough. It will change when the developers include a reason for raiders to NOT completely scrape a base of everything on it. And maybe it will change when the developers integrate a method of discouraging end game characters from slaughtering noobs.

[Syndarn]

I remember that thread and my response still applies. However, I do personally appreciate your intention to improve the living quality of Plymouth, but you should know that living lawlessly on Plymouth is the same as living on other servers. These ruins you mention are because Plymouth was the first server to be played on and when the two others were created, most players stuck around on Plymouth until they quit or were encouraged to try their luck elsewhere.

True. I can't really argue with that. Lawlessly, well i guess that depends if it's treaty lawlessly or lawlesslylawlessly. The ruins were not probably all the tribes fault. But that the population is so scarce that probably is.

More than anything else, the most effective tool of government is the illusion of omnipotence.

I guess there is some truth in that.

Plymouth will change when the players want it to change badly enough. It will change when the developers include a reason for raiders to NOT completely scrape a base of everything on it. And maybe it will change when the developers integrate a method of discouraging end game characters from slaughtering noobs.

Well i don't really believe in a restrictive environment. Do we really need game mechanics to tell us what is considered ok and what is not? Why do we have such ease to succumb into evil doing and raiding? when we know it's not really socially acceptable. Is "just because i can or we can" enough?

We can also look at what is happening in the real world. The knockout thing that is ongoing in America. The ones that do it are probably doing it just because they can and for the luls or seeking attention of some sort.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/12/01/337705/chaos-is-coming-to-the-streets-of-america/

Does it really matter if it's in the game, or in the real world. It's wrong anyway kinda. More so in the real life of course.

I just don't get it, why can't we get along? we should. Why must every.. excuse me.. ***** thing have to be babysitted. Including salem.
Can not people figure it out for themselves? is the human race so retarded?

I personally don't have the urge to raid and murder in salem even if i probably could devote my time to it if i wanted. There is just so little to gain from this. And in the end it's taking away something from someone, not giving back to the community. Just for personal gains.

For example I could picture myself doing some thievery at some point (not on JT), but then again i would not destroy anything or murder, that means i couldn't steal from that place again. Id be a smart thief. If thieving even can be considered very smart. You end up dead mostlikely. I guess it's just for drama.

For the record. We don't seem to have any good thieves in salem. It's just raids for the most part wich involves killing and destroying to cause harm. I don't recall reading anything with just theft and leaving the place untouched othervise. You should just take the lollipop from the kid and walk away. Why do you have to beat him up and destroy his bike. Is this good entertainment? how wicked can we be?

-Kruger

[aprevite]

Why not just pay the treaty? I view it as paying taxes (except I do get benefits paying treaty to the Tribe instead of supporting welfare with my government taxes but I digress). I started playing in Mid-Nov. My wife and I log a decent number of hours. Silver isn’t really that hard to earn in this game once you sorted out the game mechanics. I’ve read the Tribe even offers programs (e.g. lime for silver) to earn money (which I view as a form of welfare but I digress again). This has probably been hashed out endlessly but rule of law requires a means of enforcement. The means of enforcement has an economic cost (taxes, treaty, VAT).

With just beaver hunting for food my wife and I can generate 100 – 150 silver a day with an hour of work (and taking it easy). In exchange, I don’t have to go ***** crazy spending on defenses because there is no one who can behave in a lawless fashion without being punished. If you have a decent sized claim, you may pay 300-400 a month. A brazier’s value is four iron bars or conservatively the equivalent of ~400 silver. I can deploy 20 less braziers and pay treaty for 20 months plus I will have saved 80 bars to use to increase my industry or skills (both of which will contribute to my economic wealth in the game). Paying the treaty is an economic advantage to the player(s) paying.

(I pay treaty but I am not part of the tribe. I’m a pasty settler.)

[Syndarn]

I hear ye. aprevite.

It's more of a principle really. What the tribe is offering in the end it's not even such a bad deal. But it's still agains't what i believe in. If you wish to pay the treaty that is fine. It's just that i believe it is effectively locking away some certain gameplay aspects and freedoms. It's basically their way or die. I don't personally see the reservation as a good enough option. It might be a nice place to learn stuff like a tutorial. But it's not a place you stay and build your'e home at. For me it goes hand to hand with die. It's abit tricky.

I guess i could live with that if i didn't pay and my place got leveled and i'd get to keep my character. In the end i would probably end up paying, but when my char gets killed in the process of the tribe "justice", after that It feels kinda pointless to take that risk again. Easier to go to another server.

EDIT: Get's killed without a warning and a chance to pay the treaty. Act ask questions later. Not really a goverment i want to put myself under.

-Kruger

[aprevite]

I don’t disagree about getting killed without warning. It may have been a case of mistaken identity (such as believing you to be the former occupant of an area). All the Tribe folks I have interacted with are “men/women of their word.” They’ve really gone out of their way to help my wife and I. They answered questions that they’ve probably answered too many dozens of times. If our roles were reversed I’m not sure I would have the same patience. I’ve made lots of trades with them. In some cases, I feel like I got the better deal (or at least that is my perception). I’ve never had to worry about a trade going bad or being ripped off. Its real peace of mind for us.

Unless there is a fundamental personality difference or history between players, Plymouth is going to be the more enjoyable server for play builder/explorer types. I am *not* raider but an explorer and builder. In the few weeks we have played, we have accomplished more than we would have on any other server. Mainly because we can focus on our play style and the Tribe trading critical materials we needed. We don’t have to worry about being raided or grief’ers.

I do not feel like my play style has been restricted in any way but that may be a difference in play styles. It may be worth having a conversation with the Tribe. I read the threads about the happenings on the other servers and thank my lucky stars that we ended up on Plymouth.

[cannibalkirby]

I hear ye. aprevite.

It's more of a principle really. What the tribe is offering in the end it's not even such a bad deal. But it's still agains't what i believe in. If you wish to pay the treaty that is fine. It's just that i believe it is effectively locking away some certain gameplay aspects and freedoms. It's basically their way or die. I don't personally see the reservation as a good enough option. It might be a nice place to learn stuff like a tutorial. But it's not a place you stay and build your'e home at. For me it goes hand to hand with die. It's abit tricky.

I guess i could live with that if i didn't pay and my place got leveled and i'd get to keep my character. In the end i would probably end up paying, but when my char gets killed in the process of the tribe "justice", after that It feels kinda pointless to take that risk again. Easier to go to another server.

EDIT: Get's killed without a warning and a chance to pay the treaty. Act ask questions later. Not really a goverment i want to put myself under.

-Kruger

I also don't like their system and am living on plymouth without paying the treaty, but what you are saying is you want to be a rebel and live there knowing their terms and would rather they level your place as a hide and seek game warning then you pay the treaty.... instead of them just enforcing their law by killing off the non treaty payer and ending the entire thing, keep in mind that if someone keeps their character it is just as easy to start basing anywhere again, character death is the only way to prevent this from happening again or at least discourage it greatly

[Syndarn]

I In some cases, I feel like I got the better deal (or at least that is my perception). I’ve never had to worry about a trade going bad or being ripped off. Its real peace of mind for us.

Yeah. You probably have. There is alot of good things that come with the treaty aswell. I can't deny this. I agree with you.

I am just very stubborn at my beliefs.

Unless there is a fundamental personality difference or history between players, Plymouth is going to be the more enjoyable server for play builder/explorer types. I am *not* raider but an explorer and builder. In the few weeks we have played, we have accomplished more than we would have on any other server. Mainly because we can focus on our play style and the Tribe trading critical materials we needed. We don’t have to worry about being raided or grief’ers.

I can agree with you here aswell. I'm also the explorer and builder. It's good to hear that you thrive so well on Plymouth. It's a pity we didn't end up playing together. You seem like a person worth knowing.

I do not feel like my play style has been restricted in any way but that may be a difference in play styles. It may be worth having a conversation with the Tribe. I read the threads about the happenings on the other servers and thank my lucky stars that we ended up on Plymouth.

Okay. Well i feel abit unsure and conflicted here. I mean i could eventually pay a tax. It's not really something i'd hate doing. But i would only pay it to a responsible goverment that has respectable laws. Atleast that defined what happens to you if you do X sort of crime etc. I guess somekind of choice to not pay would be viable. But then you would get less protection.

It's abit conflicting. If the tribe would open plymouth then the chance is that you would get raided would be higher. The raiders would die i am sure of it. but you would end up losing still. I can see how this is a problem. The current system is more foolproof. But i do find it slightly boring.

Of course it wouldn't have to end up this way, but chances are it is more probable. I guess it all comes down to having more good people playing salem than griefous phsycopaths.

tricky.

-Kruger