Salem

Sidran wrote:Worms decide relative distribution of elements while compost bin purity decides humus amplitude (purity).. so in a way worms just decide "flavor" while compost bin decides its "strength".

Pretty sure that's downright impossible. Purity% and Purity multiplier are both calculated by the element ratios of each item. You can't have the worms say one thing and the compost bin say another. I believe the formula Hans found initially, when feedstock mattered, is still in play, and will probably have similar variants in other game systems from now on. The way it works is in line with what Jorb said in the second to last patch notes : Results will be heavily biased against mixing elements with a huge disparity in purity. I initially thought that meant that it's counter productive to use stuff that has different dominant elements, but now realize that it describes Hans' formula. Way different purity% in elements gets worse results than closer purities, because with closer purities both item's elements have similar weight towards the end result.

lachlaan wrote:

Sidran wrote:Worms decide relative distribution of elements while compost bin purity decides humus amplitude (purity).. so in a way worms just decide "flavor" while compost bin decides its "strength".

Pretty sure that's downright impossible. Purity% and Purity multiplier are both calculated by the element ratios of each item. You can't have the worms say one thing and the compost bin say another. ...
...

Ohh Yes we can ©
I cannot hassle with needed math.. it should be obvious from the picture that it is possible. Finding equation is another thing.

If your worms decide the "flavour", or rather, the element values of your output humus, then there is no way past that point to modify the actual purity%. A unit of humus with 20/30/30/20 elements can only ever be (0.20^2 + 0.30^2 + 0.30^2 + 0.20^ - 0.25) * 4/3 % pure. At best you could say that the compost bin's "weight" in the equation might be modified by its multiplier whereas the worm's weight is modified by its purity%. Personally I doubt that's the case, but since this is a science thread, you should show some samples and find a formula that applies

lachlaan wrote:...................
Personally I doubt that's the case, but since this is a science thread, you should show some samples and find a formula that applies

Take neutral distribution (25,25,25,25) and subtract from it worms distribution (in my example: 10,10,80,0)
You will get : (15,15,-55,25)
Our target purity, as in previous example is 6.67% (purity of the compost bin)

Now we apply purity formula in a bit expanded form:
(((10+15*k)/100)^2 + ((10+15*k)/100)^2 + ((80-55*k)/100)^2 + ((0+25*k)/100)^2 - 0.25)*4/3 = 0.066666 (wanted purity)
Solving this we get two possible values for k, namely (0.6508, 1.3492)
We take value lower than 1, meaning 0.6508 and press it backwards to get our values:
10+15*0.6508= 19,76 (salt)
10+15*0.6508= 19,76 (mercury)
80-55*0.6508= 44.2 (sulph)
0+25*0.6508= 16.27 (lead)

Resulting humus in this ideal case is (19.76, 19.76, 44.2, 16.27), purity 6.67%
Tho keep in mind that devs can easily bake some negligible random values into final number just to increase fun (or confusion).
I am not saying it is like this, just is IMO highly probable.

Thanks for stirring me up a bit I decided to use what little resources i had (A whole 2 barely pure worms xD) and got my old rusty highschool math out and worked out the formula, more or less. Worms seem to have a weight of multiplier/100, while the bin (a 25/25/25/25 one, at least) has a weight of 1 - wormultiplier/100. Is consistent with my results and more or less with the higher purity results someone else posted. Without carefully listed elemental values rather than purities, I can't double check properly. So I urge everyone to check this formula with their most recent humus, or at least post some detailed numbers so i can throw some math at 'em. Output = We * Wm * Worm~Efficiency/ 400 + Be * (1 - Wm * Worm~Efficiency/ 400) where We replaces the average of the worm elements, Wm is the multiplier of the average, more or less, and Be is the bin's elemental composition.

Edit: Changed the formula to include the way I think worm efficiency works. Will also test on my own bin as soon as the piece of humus from a 2 worm batch is produced.
Edit2: Okay, worm efficiency is confusing me now So feel free to work on my idea or otherwise, good luck finding the true formula applied

Sidran wrote:

lachlaan wrote:...................
Personally I doubt that's the case, but since this is a science thread, you should show some samples and find a formula that applies

Take neutral distribution (25,25,25,25) and subtract from it worms distribution (in my example: 10,10,80,0)
You will get : (15,15,-55,25)
Our target purity, as in previous example is 6.67% (purity of the compost bin)

Now we apply purity formula in a bit expanded form:
(((10+15*k)/100)^2 + ((10+15*k)/100)^2 + ((80-55*k)/100)^2 + ((0+25*k)/100)^2 - 0.25)*4/3 = 0.066666 (wanted purity)
Solving this we get two possible values for k, namely (0.6508, 1.3492)
We take value lower than 1, meaning 0.6508 and press it backwards to get our values:
10+15*0.6508= 19,76 (salt)
10+15*0.6508= 19,76 (mercury)
80-55*0.6508= 44.2 (sulph)
0+25*0.6508= 16.27 (lead)

Resulting humus in this ideal case is (19.76, 19.76, 44.2, 16.27), purity 6.67%
Tho keep in mind that devs can easily bake some negligible random values into final number just to increase fun (or confusion).
I am not saying it is like this, just is IMO highly probable.

That is either the most complicated way of describing a "Weighted Average" I have ever seen, or you need to explain what the hell you just calculated.

Hans_Lemurson wrote:That is either the most complicated way of describing a "Weighted Average" I have ever seen, or you need to explain what the hell you just calculated.

That is a way to show that resulting humus's elemental distribution could be fully influenced by worms but at the same time its purity capped by purity of compost bin. Simplest way to say what I did in previous post: Making humus which inherits elemental distribution (as much as possible) from worms while inheriting purity from compost bin.

After carefully reading what I wrote feel free to ask any specific question. This is no higher math.. yes, it seems daunting but is in principle very simple. And I am not really interested in how its called.. Ill forget it anyway.

The math I could follow, but the explanation seemed to skip over a few points, such as how the Elemental Composition of the Compost Bin figured in to the calculations you were running.

Humus alchemy is a function of Bin alchemy and Worm alchemy.

Your calculations seemed to start with Worm alchemy, state what your "Target Purity" was, and then yielded some Humus whose purity was equal to the target. I do not understand the significance or utility of this. That is what I need clarification on.

Also useful to know: Are your equations accurate? Do you have Worms in a Bin whose humus value you can predict?

Some data:
Green area - pythons 90+ + worms 90+% (100% effinency)
Red area - pythons 90+ (80%)
no border - pythons 90+ + worms 100% (100%)





Seems like pythons are the key to maxing out purity of humus
When worm is spawning along with humus this piece is losing a little purity(??????)
there is no point in using 100% worms as they only lowers the purity of humus

The purity drop could be explained by the fresh Null-Purity worm being averaged with the high-purity pythons.

Would you be able to give numbers for the worms themselves?