Re: Compost Bin Purity: Oh crap, how do earthworms work?

by **wiatrak** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:18 am

Changed some worms to 100% and also 1 python salt/lead to salt/merc

and here's result

The purity of bins is hard-capping humus(even with best worms it will never go over 0%)
i could make some more test with diffrent sets of worms(low purity, high purity, diffrent amount) just say if there is any special combination you are interested in(only worms/only pythons etc.)

by **lachlaan** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:25 am

Seems like it is indeed the old formula that hans calculated using input material rather than worms. Weight of worms in the formula is inversely proportional to their purity multiplier.

by **martinuzz** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:50 am

wiatrak wrote:The purity of bins is hard-capping humus(even with best worms it will never go over 0%)

This seems not entirely true. The humus is not 25/25/25/25, so it's not a hardcap, but rather a very heavy weighted softcap.

Some test results:

Humus, before worm patch, made from 90% pure seeds of cereals put into the bin, came out 0% pure (22.70/22.82/22.73/31.77)

After worm patch. I added six 92% pure earthworms (5x 2.24/0.24/0.39/97.15 and 1x 1.21/1.17/0.54/97.07), getting worm efficiency up to 24%.
Humus came out 22.83/22.67/22.67/31.83)

by **Darkside** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:53 pm

Ack, this is bad news... I had managed to find an alt I had with 8% pure mercury python so I emptied out a bin and put the python in last night. I woke up this morning and here is what I found:

*Note* the worm efficiency number is incorrect - I photoshopped the common earthworm icon back into the bin as I had a knee-jerk reaciton to remove him ASAP.. so the efficiency number is showing only for the python

The bad news: it generated a new common earthworm in the bin, but the new worm has no purity value and so humus created after it suffered quality!

So basically if you wish to maximize your bin output you need to babysit them to pull out any new worms that form before they ruin that bin's production!

by **qbradq** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:55 pm

Quit wondering about how the cap works and read the first post. The formula there is almost perfect. It basically means that the output of your bin will pull very hard toward the purity of the bin itself, no matter what quality your worms are. Having worms closer to the purity of your bin makes your output closer to the bin's purity as well. Having worms higher in purity than your bin won't hurt, but it won't help very much at all.

by **ysbryd** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:11 pm

Oh crap, how do earthworms work?
They dont

by **qbradq** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:47 pm

Yea, Jorb is looking at why they aren't eating.

by **Sidran** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:41 pm

Just a thought about compost bin.. I am not sure but "compost bin alchemy" might actually be split in an unprecedented (at least to me) way.

Worms decide relative distribution of elements while compost bin purity decides humus amplitude (purity).. so in a way worms just decide "flavor" while compost bin decides its "strength".

Then I am wondering whether Jorb will ever understand that he cannot run around numbers without consequences. Cost of that is overwhelming, to general audience toxic kind of complexity which in turn only caters to very hardcore minority. Instead, mechanics should be numerically simple, sense of achievement always within reach and hardcore minority VERY hard soft-capped. Simple. And then work on things that actually make games fun, namely content of all kinds and new, intuitive ways of interaction.

by **qbradq** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:01 pm

Sidran wrote:Then I am wondering whether Jorb will ever understand that he cannot run around numbers without consequences. Cost of that is overwhelming, to general audience toxic kind of complexity which in turn only caters to very hardcore minority. Instead, mechanics should be numerically simple, sense of achievement always within reach and hardcore minority VERY hard soft-capped. Simple. And then work on things that actually make games fun, namely content of all kinds and new, intuitive ways of interaction.

What you've stated is exactly how mainstream MMO's are developed. Appeal to a wide, somewhat casual audience and make sure the hardcore players can't ruin everyone's good time.

My impression is that Salem is not trying to be mainstream. It seems like the devs are trying to create the kind of game they want to play, and it's pretty hardcore.

If you don't like a vertical learning curve and an endless grind, this might not be the right game for you

by **Sidran** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:20 pm

qbradq wrote:What you've stated is exactly how mainstream MMO's are developed. Appeal to a wide, somewhat casual audience and make sure the hardcore players can't ruin everyone's good time.

My impression is that Salem is not trying to be mainstream. It seems like the devs are trying to create the kind of game they want to play, and it's pretty hardcore.

If you don't like a vertical learning curve and an endless grind, this might not be the right game for you

On one level I do agree with what you're saying. But observed deeper, shades of gray start appearing and binary logic dissolves. There is a full spectrum of possibilities between general, mainstream, intelligence insulting, common denominator MMO titles spewed-out only with profit in mind and completely autistic, archaic, ASCII adorned, uber-nerd worshiped pieces on the other hand. True masters and creative developers carefully pick best parts from both worlds creating a mix. Thats true, courageous, innovative design IMO.