History's Lessons

Ask and answer any and all questions pertaining to Salem's game-play.

Re: History's Lessons

Postby Dallane » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:21 am

MaxPlanck wrote:
Dallane wrote:
MaxPlanck wrote:I can confirm I have actively raided. My own base.


How long was the stream of it?


I don't remember tbh. I didn't even get around to destroying everything on stream either, had to do a majority of it the next day cause I was pretty tired/bored near the end.


It was several hours from what I remember. Thats with multiple people with zero crime scents and permissions. I can't even begin to imagine how long it would take someone to break in and raid the place. It would be a nightmare
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby ZoddAlmighty » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:48 am

Dallane wrote:
MaxPlanck wrote:I can confirm I have actively raided. My own base.


How long was the stream of it?

The stream was 5 or 6 hours long on 3 characters i believe.
Though, i let someone someone to salvage Westpine and i can say that they had probably a week of trying to get most things.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Chrumps » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:31 am

Neither raiding for several hours or days straight nor losing most of game achievements in a raid is fun. I consider it fair that wiping someone's base comes with a cost. The problem is in this scenario the raided player will likely ragequit and the raider will quit out of boredom. That's a lose-lose situation. Still, I believe the option to wipe someone's base because of hate/revenge/RP at a huge cost should be there.
What I would like to see is a Commandos: Behind Enemy Lines mode of raiding where a casual raider can, within 2 hours penetrate a well defended base and inflict limited damage, be it stealing valuables or damaging some defenses. The difficulty in implementing such a thing is that it would likely devolve into accelerating a siege or into planting a teleport alt in a mine so balancing such a mechanics would be tricky.

Not to mention it takes active development to implement any changes.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Ronch » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:50 pm

Chrumps wrote:Behind Enemy Lines[/url] mode of raiding where a casual raider can, within 2 hours penetrate a well defended base and inflict limited damage, be it stealing valuables or damaging some defenses. The difficulty in implementing such a thing is that it would likely devolve into accelerating a siege or into planting a teleport alt in a mine so balancing such a mechanics would be tricky.

Not to mention it takes active development to implement any changes.

Behind enemy lines mode would be cool.

One option in the game seems to me to be overlooked by most players who enjoy raiding bases. And that is simple PvP, no raiding required.
PvP methods that are already accommodated in this game, like:
...1, Lying in wait outside of a base to snipe a player.
...2, Stalking players to pounce on them in the wild while that player is hunting, gathering, salvaging or exploring.
...3, Pushing a player out of Providence to beat'em and take their lunch, or life.
...4, Bomb them into a stupor anywhere on the map, beat'em and then empty their pockets, extort/ransom them, or just quickly dispatch them.
...5, The fight club.
...6, Witchcraft accusations (coming "soon")

The reason that I am bringing this up is because the game doesn't actually advertise raiding, it advertises crafting, survival and PvP with permadeath.
Although in a contrary way to that advertisement, every complaint about the game from vet PvP'ers here that I've read since joining this charming community has always been focused on claiming that the game's raiding system is broken.
...I know the game accommodates raiding and always has, but again the game doesn't advertise raiding as its primary feature, but the complaints about raiding seem to always raise and rely on the default argument of "raiding is broken" to demean the game and/or its developers, as if raiding is one of this game's primary features.

On a side note toward that:
I also disagree that a strong base cannot be raided.
It just cost much more than the raider is willing to invest and risk in that raid, which IMO is extremely biased compared to how much was invested in creating that strong base that the raider covets.
I think the risk vs reward while raiding in this game is currently in a decent balance.

I don't want to offend anyone by being captain obvious here, just wanted to offer these observations of mine into the discussion.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Judaism » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:14 pm

Ronch wrote:but again the game doesn't advertise raiding as its primary feature, but the complaints about raiding seem to always raise and rely on the default argument of "raiding is broken" to demean the game and/or its developers, as if raiding is one of this game's primary features.


What do you mean, its a persistent and mutable game. Raiding has been advertised and is an essential part of the game. Things never were meant to remain untouched for months, let alone years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdiE1tlKWzI

One option in the game seems to me to be overlooked by most players who enjoy raiding bases. And that is simple PvP, no raiding required.
PvP methods that are already accommodated in this game, like:
...1, Lying in wait outside of a base to snipe a player.
...2, Stalking players to pounce on them in the wild while that player is hunting, gathering, salvaging or exploring.
...3, Pushing a player out of Providence to beat'em and take their lunch, or life.
...4, Bomb them into a stupor anywhere on the map, beat'em and then empty their pockets, extort/ransom them, or just quickly dispatch them.
...5, The fight club.
...6, Witchcraft accusations (coming "soon")


1. Bases became more important and bigger over time, there is no need to leave your base and when you do there is absolutely no need to do it with valuable characters. Back in the days this was a big part and on Concord as well, the new tracking mechanics would make this a very cool feature but for Providence it is useless. Camping for hours and hours with a very slim chance of any chance at all, let alone people using consumables to simply get out of combat. Back in the days you would be combat locked, it also had downsides such as being able to force close your game without a timer.

2. Covered in the first point, Providence is far too large on Concord you would find people outside everywhere due to it being a new server and the bases where not self sufficient and people had more need to go out to supply their needs.

3. Requires someone to be afk for quite a while, how is that satisfying?

4. -

5. The fight club is fairly pointless, no events anyway and with the current playerbase nearly nothing happens there. A town next to Providence is much better without the random interruption or risks.

6. Witchcraft is fairly useless, you usually require a lot of things prior to even curse someone and that requires actions and such beforehand with the server being so vast, people using multiple characters, barely being in town it really is not very useful.

Not really the dangerous world with the necessary action it was advertised to be. The first few weeks of Concord for example sure were fun and lively, however a rigid and big server such as Providence features none of those things.

We are discussing the initial intent of the game and it was to be unique, with perma-death, a place which would be lively people were meant to wander/forage/hunt outside often and run into each other. Settlements and towns were meant to be raided regularly but none of that has been the case for quite a while now.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby nosfirebird » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:47 pm

Ronch wrote:
Chrumps wrote:Behind Enemy Lines[/url] mode of raiding where a casual raider can, within 2 hours penetrate a well defended base and inflict limited damage, be it stealing valuables or damaging some defenses. The difficulty in implementing such a thing is that it would likely devolve into accelerating a siege or into planting a teleport alt in a mine so balancing such a mechanics would be tricky.

Not to mention it takes active development to implement any changes.

Behind enemy lines mode would be cool.

One option in the game seems to me to be overlooked by most players who enjoy raiding bases. And that is simple PvP, no raiding required.
PvP methods that are already accommodated in this game, like:
...1, Lying in wait outside of a base to snipe a player.
...2, Stalking players to pounce on them in the wild while that player is hunting, gathering, salvaging or exploring.
...3, Pushing a player out of Providence to beat'em and take their lunch, or life.
...4, Bomb them into a stupor anywhere on the map, beat'em and then empty their pockets, extort/ransom them, or just quickly dispatch them.
...5, The fight club.
...6, Witchcraft accusations (coming "soon")

The reason that I am bringing this up is because the game doesn't actually advertise raiding, it advertises crafting, survival and PvP with permadeath.
Although in a contrary way to that advertisement, every complaint about the game from vet PvP'ers here that I've read since joining this charming community has always been focused on claiming that the game's raiding system is broken.
...I know the game accommodates raiding and always has, but again the game doesn't advertise raiding as its primary feature, but the complaints about raiding seem to always raise and rely on the default argument of "raiding is broken" to demean the game and/or its developers, as if raiding is one of this game's primary features.

On a side note toward that:
I also disagree that a strong base cannot be raided.
It just cost much more than the raider is willing to invest and risk in that raid, which IMO is extremely biased compared to how much was invested in creating that strong base that the raider covets.
I think the risk vs reward while raiding in this game is currently in a decent balance.

I don't want to offend anyone by being captain obvious here, just wanted to offer these observations of mine into the discussion.


there is a large issue with pvp and its fairly hard thing to overcome people in the uk/close to the uk have a huge advantage with stuns/gap closers (the server is based in the uk) just look at the combat with heff and dar heff was able to run circles around dar due to ping(u can see it in the video). i first saw it in concord when i was trying to stomp juda through a wall. on my screen i started the stomp 3/4 a sec before judas stomp but he always finished the stomp before mine.(faster stomp animation to make up latency)
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby JoanXena » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:27 pm

Judaism wrote:
JoanXena wrote:Classified information


:o

Fixed, I apologize for my momentary lapse in sanity.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Judaism » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:09 pm

nosfirebird wrote:there is a large issue with pvp and its fairly hard thing to overcome people in the uk/close to the uk have a huge advantage with stuns/gap closers (the server is based in the uk) just look at the combat with heff and dar heff was able to run circles around dar due to ping(u can see it in the video). i first saw it in concord when i was trying to stomp juda through a wall. on my screen i started the stomp 3/4 a sec before judas stomp but he always finished the stomp before mine.(faster stomp animation to make up latency)


The servers are in Sweden (iirc) and you always have this issue, other than that the ping is around 130ms for EAST-NA and 170ms for WEST-NA. Stop being an idiot, that is the speed of the internet (fairly close to the speed of light) and there is nothing you can do about it, unless you think its a good idea to make Salem region based.

So stop blowing up the issue and it never was an issue for larger factions, you simply just suck.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Taipion » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:09 pm

lol, you're seriously trying to tell people it's no difference to have "130 to 170" ping or the normal "50 or less".... seriously?!

Well, at least you're consistent in what you say, as that's on par with anything you say about raiding, the game in general, and those childish insults you spew around all the time.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Judaism » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:37 pm

Taipion wrote:lol, you're seriously trying to tell people it's no difference to have "130 to 170" ping or the normal "50 or less".... seriously?!

Well, at least you're consistent in what you say, as that's on par with anything you say about raiding, the game in general, and those childish insults you spew around all the time.


The 50 or below ping is not normal and only counts for West-Europe. Despite the majority being European, or Russians it still is not normal. Having a higher ping is not always a downside either.

No ***** Taipon, this idiot is implying it made a huge difference as it would had changed any outcome. The **** does not even realize that the majority of the players from the Capitalists were either from Canada/USA/Australia and not from Europe, just like any other faction had a mix of players.

I have never heard the ping excuse before, Salem is not that fast combat paced, nor complicated like a shooter to really feel much of a difference. The MM tribe was mainly or exclusive from North America, same goes for the CG and Darwoth, they never complained about that.

Salem is not large enough to even have any healthy server, to devide to playerbase in multiple regions for the slim ping boost, which has zero impact into the game.

Meth used to be our best fighter by far and I am sure that he has one of the worst pings out of everyone, excuse after excuse.
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