History's Lessons

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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Heffernan » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:32 am

Taipion wrote:
Rifmaster wrote:Unless the defenders are inactive, you cannot raid a town with a brick wall and braziers. There is simply way too many ways to defend. It's why there hasn't been a proper active base raid in atleast 2 years now.


Draining the def of ammo is one way to start, and is relatively risk free as you won't need to leave summonable scents, yet.

With enough dedicated players, outnumbering the other party sufficiently, you can raid any base,
but yea, that rarely happens due to player numbers.


thats true but only any INACTIVE base

if the base is inactive nope you cant

just slap a big enough pclaim over your base and 15+ braziers and its undrainable and unraidable forever if u refill or repair, and even if ur inactiv peopole wont raid it..
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Taipion » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:13 am

Heffernan wrote:
Taipion wrote:
Rifmaster wrote:Unless the defenders are inactive, you cannot raid a town with a brick wall and braziers. There is simply way too many ways to defend. It's why there hasn't been a proper active base raid in atleast 2 years now.


Draining the def of ammo is one way to start, and is relatively risk free as you won't need to leave summonable scents, yet.

With enough dedicated players, outnumbering the other party sufficiently, you can raid any base,
but yea, that rarely happens due to player numbers.


thats true but only any INACTIVE base

if the base is inactive nope you cant

just slap a big enough pclaim over your base and 15+ braziers and its undrainable and unraidable forever if u refill or repair, and even if ur inactiv peopole wont raid it..


Only if you have people online 24/7 and even then, if the attackers team outnumbers the defenders sufficiently, they can win.
I doubt this has been tried yet, like 20 vs 2, so no use in presenting theories as fact.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Methuzelah23 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:08 am

Taipion wrote:Only if you have people online 24/7 and even then, if the attackers team outnumbers the defenders sufficiently, they can win.
I doubt this has been tried yet, like 20 vs 2, so no use in presenting theories as fact.


Well, unsurprisingly, you would be wrong with that assumption. In fact, over 20 players from numerous factions combined could not defeat one active defender. Prior to the jinglebomb changes, and the ones that followed, one defender could be overwhelmed by 3-4, varying of course depending on the preparedness of both parties. But yeah, under current conditions, you are absolutely wrong, 20 people cannot defeat 2 assuming even semi equal competence.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby MaxPlanck » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:04 pm

Imagine a base filled with plank walls surrounded by a donut-raid town+TBF to stop the town being raided from using providence.

The player inside could hold this base for all of eternity due to the ability to self sustain repair materials for the wall (compared to brick walls where getting more bricks is a finite source in a limited space of usage even with dirt digging)

The player can also smelt silver ore they mine to keep the pclaims/tclaims silver upkeep going without needing to go to providence to sell things such as cotton and hides.
Now add a singular player who checks his base perimeter 2 times a day and has 10-20 plank walls before hitting any resource at all under a Pclaim separated properly to avoid splash damage.

Now add that the player also has 3-4 brickwalls+plank wall layers behind all that that actually protect whats inside the base.

As for sustaining limestone, thats a different story. And if the player doesn't have a limepit in base or a stockpile of 10k+ lime they could run into problems defending their base with braziers only especially if you use onion layered defense designs(the cheapest form of wall building) which leaves many braziers vulnerable to be doused and thus requiring so much iron to repair them again or end up leaving vulnerable spots for the next raid.

Since the player is of course donuted then most likely they cannot actually grab scents to stock people except you actually can if you keep one of your characters logged out in providence that has a leanto claimed inside your town then using the tactics of "Reverse Stealing" you can move scents onto the said character and stock people from the safety of your base [DISCLAIMER:An actual experienced raider doesn't log out their characters to get stocked but you can still setup TBC's in a flank outside of both the town and donut raid town] . Again, you can also do this strategy to bring in more materials but unless you have a criminality set its quite tedious at the high cost of 40 base black bile per item moved.

----------------------------------------------------
All things aside in this hella long TL;DR

If the defender doesn't feel like defending anymore and wants to quit the game after a 2-week long raid campaign? All he has to do is destroy his valued possessions within a day or so and let it fall to ruin while the people who spent so many hours trying to raid it get ***** **** in return for their efforts.

In the end. You can't really raid in this game.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Taipion » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:36 pm

There are so many failed assumptions here....

1.) if there are only an handful players defending, chances are there is a 8h+ window when they are offline, you can breach a town or at least get some way in within 8h, if you outnumber them by a lot...

2.) TbF does not stop anyone from getting things to and from provi

3.) walls.... walls <<< defence
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Judaism » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:14 pm

Taipion wrote:There are so many failed assumptions here....

1.) if there are only an handful players defending, chances are there is a 8h+ window when they are offline, you can breach a town or at least get some way in within 8h, if you outnumber them by a lot...

2.) TbF does not stop anyone from getting things to and from provi

3.) walls.... walls <<< defence

Just get out of here, since you have no knowledge of raiding, nor defending.

Your first phrase already has so many contradictions and you have been proven clueless over the years on numerous subjects.

Chances are there is a 8+ window when they are offline..... if you outnumber them by a lot....


So you speak about offline/inactive bases and then you mention how numbers are relevant when you ''outnumber'' them when they are offline. Besides 8+ hours is not going to get you anywhere in serious bases, which most of the remaining players do have by now.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Taipion » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:45 pm

Yea juda trying to mix up things again to simply say "you're wrong" while we all know how he has a completely flawed view on raiding and wants it to be easymode and would not even try to give anything constructive here anyways...
Not even bothering to read/quote your stuff and simply saying from skimming it, "you're wrong", that simple.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Judaism » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:29 pm

Taipion wrote:Yea juda trying to mix up things again to simply say "you're wrong" while we all know how he has a completely flawed view on raiding and wants it to be easymode and would not even try to give anything constructive here anyways...
Not even bothering to read/quote your stuff and simply saying from skimming it, "you're wrong", that simple.


You are in no position to decide whether or not I have a flawed view on raiding, I actually have participated raids under numerous systems including the current system. Very few people have the knowledge of this information and experience. Therefore I am not really in the mood to hear so many idiots debate in matters they have no expertise in.

You are one of the worst when it comes down to that, not only regarding raiding and when it boils down to constructive feedback and replies, you most certainly do not provide any of that.

Anyone who has ever attempted serious raiding under the current system knows that it is very broken, the developers also are fully aware of this and they have pushed towards the current situation on purpose. They will not fix it, its too hard to balance it, let alone whether or not they are ever going to invest time into this game again.

That aside, it has been a massive part of why the current game is so boring regarding to raiding, drama and does not cater any PvP orientated players, just the carebears like yourself and the players that simply like a glorified farmville. That is entirely fine. All the high expectations people once had, have been crushed over the past years. That aside, you simply stating a lot of *****, without ever having the necessary experience is just blatantly idiotic and even with the current player-base no-1 supports it.

You accuse me of the exact thing you literally just did, since you started out with ''There are so many failed assumptions here'', (Hypocrite much) just spread your lies and crap in the discord channel instead of here. I do not wish to debate or discuss matters with clueless people. Once you actually know what the hell you are talking about and have gained some experience, then I'd gladly take you a bit more serious, but up to now you are nothing more than a noob regarding these subjects and its pointless in discussing it furthermore with you.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Taipion » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:15 pm

Dude, I read half of the first sentence and knew instantly what you're trying to say.

Yea, you are in no position to dictate the only one truth here, and you would not want to contribute anything positive anyways.

So just spare us all those lines of your absolutely pointless narcissism, no one cares.
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Re: History's Lessons

Postby Methuzelah23 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:24 pm

Judaism wrote:Anyone who has ever attempted serious raiding under the current system knows that it is very broken, the developers also are fully aware of this and they have pushed towards the current situation on purpose. They will not fix it, its too hard to balance it, let alone whether or not they are ever going to invest time into this game again.

That aside, it has been a massive part of why the current game is so boring regarding to raiding, drama and does not cater any PvP orientated players, just the carebears like yourself and the players that simply like a glorified farmville. That is entirely fine. All the high expectations people once had, have been crushed over the past years. That aside, you simply stating a lot of *****, without ever having the necessary experience is just blatantly idiotic and even with the current player-base no-1 supports it.


Exactly this; whether juda is popular with the carebears or not is irrelevant, at this point Taipon you are trying to argue facts. The devs are fully aware of the current environment of raiding, yet despite countless people telling you these things you just bleat like a preggo sheep. Your black and white mentality shows how immature you are, you claim juda wants easy mode raiding, but along with your other "expert" claims on raiding it is blatantly untrue. Perhaps you don't understand the difference between easy mode and reasonably feasible, because nobody wants raiding to be as easy as it has been at some points over the years, but skewing to the FAR other end of the spectrum is demonstrably and clearly unviable to the health of the game. Drama is the glue that held salem together, carebears and pvp'ers. With the kind of interactions and conflicts that happened over the years, you did not see people whining about getting new shiny things every week, and there was a tiny fraction of people asking if the game is dead, as compared to what it is now.

Of course it is hard to balance and make everyone happy, but you're the only one denying that things are way too skewed in the favor of defense/non interactive players and that should tell you something. While i doubt you have the wherewithal to allow your opinion to be swayed, I am an eternal optimist, and perhaps you will see the light.
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