Sevenless' Guide to the New World - Now with Community Help

Ask and answer any and all questions pertaining to Salem's game-play.

Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World-Skill/LA Section Compl

Postby TotalyMoo » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:49 pm

GamerZakh wrote:
Sevenless wrote:It will be massive, and that should be expected of a game that is sandbox open world, not to mention the social complications added by permadeath. A good way to help handle the bulk was suggested to me for my last guide: the making of multiple posts and using URLs to allow easier navigation. If the guide gets more complete and it's still cumbersome, I can do a much more indepth url linked index if a forum mod feels like helping out.


Sounds amazing. Honestly, the work you're putting into this is mind boggling. I wasn't around for HnH, but this guide is sure gonna impress. I would be so bold to ask if my videos could contribute anything to the guide? Perhaps you would like me to create a webpage for it? I'm a designer professionally and a dedicated website might be better for presentation? I'm just looking to help =) it's totally your guide so you should decide what happens to it.


Faith in mankind growing every day. Other than putting this on the wiki (should def be linked there, or even be there) I don't think a separate website has any purpose, or would it?
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World-Skill/LA Section Compl

Postby milonti » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:35 pm

TotalyMoo wrote:Faith in mankind growing every day. Other than putting this on the wiki (should def be linked there, or even be there) I don't think a separate website has any purpose, or would it?


Now on the front page under links :)
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World - 10,000 Words & Count

Postby five9 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:52 pm

this is a great journal and collection of data about the game , a must read for anyone wanting to get in depth with Salem

great guide
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World-Skill/LA Section Compl

Postby Sevenless » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:46 pm

TotalyMoo wrote:Faith in mankind growing every day. Other than putting this on the wiki (should def be linked there, or even be there) I don't think a separate website has any purpose, or would it?


There are several reasons why a separate website would be useful.

For one, this guide is generating a modest amount of web traffic, and will likely generate more in the future as Salem grows. Drawing it to another site could be used for a little bit of ad revenue to compensate in a small way the amount of work being done. I've already put in 10+ hours or so into this, so the time investment is certainly non-inconsequential. Using a stand alone website also frees you from the restrictions of needing to use forum layout. Modifying and creating index pages is much easier, where as here I would need to ask a forum mod to do any of that. And the other interesting thing of note might be drawing traffic to the other site in general. Ads aside, the site might have other content of interest.

In Zakhs case, he's building a Salem centric website. Having the guide there (which he'd be doing a fair bit of work to help format, and he'd be contributing to it) would generate a lot of traffic to a site that the guide readers would also share an interest in potentially.

Edit: And thanks for the compliments guys, I appreciate it :)
It's been neat to see the evolution of a game. Salem has come so far, and still has far to go. Although frustrating, I think it's been an experience worth the effort.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World - 10,000 Words & Count

Postby ericbomb » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:30 am

Amazing guide!

Also one thing I'm not sure got pointed is the important of context in defenses.

For example how many defenses you want/need is dependent on dozens of things.
Closeness to boston
Near major land marks (along river/lake)
Are mountain ranges between you and boston that would decrease chance of people running into you?
Are you near a good biome that might attract others?
Do you plan on ever producing expensive items that you can't instantly use/sell?
Are there lots of snakes between you and boston? (might discourage some folks)
Is there good foragable terrain between you and boston? (good biomes that might guide people to you with good foragables and the like)
oh and ofc
Do you plan on committing crimes? (if so, triple your defenses, distance from boston, and still understand you might die)

In the first world of beta I lived in the middle of a mountain range, I could leave things not even on claim and know that it'd be there tomorrow, was annoying for me but boy was it nice knowing that raiders would never come within hours of me.

So just wanting to point out that how many defenses you need is dependent on a lot of other things.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World - 10,000 Words & Count

Postby Sevenless » Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:47 pm

ericbomb wrote:Amazing guide!

Also one thing I'm not sure got pointed is the important of context in defenses.

For example how many defenses you want/need is dependent on dozens of things.
Closeness to boston
Near major land marks (along river/lake)
Are mountain ranges between you and boston that would decrease chance of people running into you?
Are you near a good biome that might attract others?
Do you plan on ever producing expensive items that you can't instantly use/sell?
Are there lots of snakes between you and boston? (might discourage some folks)
Is there good foragable terrain between you and boston? (good biomes that might guide people to you with good foragables and the like)
oh and ofc
Do you plan on committing crimes? (if so, triple your defenses, distance from boston, and still understand you might die)

In the first world of beta I lived in the middle of a mountain range, I could leave things not even on claim and know that it'd be there tomorrow, was annoying for me but boy was it nice knowing that raiders would never come within hours of me.

So just wanting to point out that how many defenses you need is dependent on a lot of other things.


I didn't put it in the title because of character restriction: This is a beginner's guide to get players started. I quite specifically stated this isn't for people committing crimes.

As for the rest, I'm not certain how much terrain actually influences things. It might decrease the number of raiders who wander by, but does that mean you want less defences? Your defences should discourage *anyone*, and as I pointed out at one point: People wandering in this game are very unlikely to ever be foragers. In haven it was different because you could teleport home with an inventory full, but here you're quite restricted to about a half hour walk once you're past the noob life. Nomads do exist, but they're a rare breed. When my faction pre-commercial decided to wander in the mountain we burned undefended homesteads to the ground essentially because none had any defences. The world is also fairly underpopulated right now. As things get denser, mountains will get investigated more. Just because there's less chance of being raided doesn't mean you should ever slack about defences.

Landmarks? -> World map shows all terraformed land. Last world my faction was using it to choose raid targets. Boats may influence this depending how good they are as a method of travel.
Good Biome? -> Honestly it's not the people who want to live there that you should be scared of. It's definitely an annoyance to have an area get over-crowded though. The simple suggestion of "water/forest/grass" shouldn't ever get over crowded because it exists in abundance. I definitely *should* mention that it's not the best to settle near people you don't know though. Thanks for reminding me.


Of the things you suggested, snakes strikes me as the most useful. Mountains are one thing, but badlands full of snakes never gets easier to cross. I would never ever suggest having less than 2 layers of stone wall and a brazier every 5 tiles along that wall. Defenses are very strong right now, they should be taken advantage of.
It's been neat to see the evolution of a game. Salem has come so far, and still has far to go. Although frustrating, I think it's been an experience worth the effort.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World - 10,000 Words & Count

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:22 pm

Well, if that's the case, then specifically finding "defensible" terrain would be a plus. If you make the raiders learn Ascent to the Summit just to raid you, then you're going to be that much safer (but probably that much more butthurt when you do get raided). Definitely one of those reasons why I hope they allow us to make cliffs in the future. I want a city on a plateau just like the Palace of the Prophets. ;) Only one way in, but as Genie says in Aladdin: "The exits are here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here."

As you say, though, this goes a bit outside of the scope of the document. That would really be a good treatise on its own.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World - 10,000 Words & Count

Postby Sevenless » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:05 pm

MagicManICT wrote:Well, if that's the case, then specifically finding "defensible" terrain would be a plus. If you make the raiders learn Ascent to the Summit just to raid you, then you're going to be that much safer (but probably that much more butthurt when you do get raided). Definitely one of those reasons why I hope they allow us to make cliffs in the future. I want a city on a plateau just like the Palace of the Prophets. ;) Only one way in, but as Genie says in Aladdin: "The exits are here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here."

As you say, though, this goes a bit outside of the scope of the document. That would really be a good treatise on its own.


Mountains also completely **** on you when it comes to foraging. I'd argue the additional defense isn't worth the pain in the ass. I tried the whole ledge defence thing in pre-com, wasn't a fan.

Unless we're talking for a vault of course.
It's been neat to see the evolution of a game. Salem has come so far, and still has far to go. Although frustrating, I think it's been an experience worth the effort.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World - 10,000 Words & Count

Postby milonti » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:18 pm

Sevenless wrote:Mountains also completely **** on you when it comes to foraging. I'd argue the additional defense isn't worth the pain in the ass. I tried the whole ledge defence thing in pre-com, wasn't a fan.

Unless we're talking for a vault of course.


Can we dig/build our own ridges yet? Thatd work pretty well for defense.
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Re: Sevenless' Guide to the New World - 10,000 Words & Count

Postby Sevenless » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:22 pm

milonti wrote:
Sevenless wrote:Mountains also completely **** on you when it comes to foraging. I'd argue the additional defense isn't worth the pain in the ass. I tried the whole ledge defence thing in pre-com, wasn't a fan.

Unless we're talking for a vault of course.


Can we dig/build our own ridges yet? Thatd work pretty well for defense.


Nope. And I'm worried if they ever allowed it (ditto for water terraforming). Adding ridges would massively overpower defence when it is already fairly easy to produce a nigh on impenetrable fortress in 3-4 weeks of hard work.
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