Re: Compost Bin Purity: Oh crap, how do earthworms work?

[Hans_Lemurson]

2 questions:

When you say worm purity do you also mean pythons?

How do you calculate the worm purity if there is more than one worm in the bin? You add them?

Thanks

1. Yes
2. I don't know. There are 3 possibilities for how the average purity is calculated:
-Weighted: Pythons count 4x as much as Earthworms in the averaging
-Per Worm: Worms and Pythons have equal weight in the average
-Per Type: Works like Crafting Ingredients; Worms and Pythons are averaged separately, then combined with equal weight

I don't know which of these methods it is, but I'm hoping for "Weighted". The others suck.

[dageir]

SInce the pythons seem contribute more to efficiency you could assume they have more weight than the normal worm.

[Hans_Lemurson]

SInce the pythons seem contribute more to efficiency you could assume they have more weight than the normal worm.

That is my hypothesis as well.

However, I am not in a position though where I can collect useful data to test this hypothesis, so I'm gonna do what everyone else is doing: Hope another person does the experiments for me.

[dageir]

Another interesting question is what happens when there are so many worms in the bins so the efficiency reaches 100% and "overshoots". What worms purity is counted? Highs? Lows? Random?

[lachlaan]

Another interesting question is what happens when there are so many worms in the bins so the efficiency reaches 100% and "overshoots". What worms purity is counted? Highs? Lows? Random?

I'm tempted to say that all the worms get averaged and then the average just contributes normally as any other 100% efficiency worm mix would. That's why when going over 100% efficiency with high purity worms, someone managed to get a purity increase in the humus. It's either a case of high worm purity making the bin count a lot more, and an extra impure worm lowering that purity difference and thus increasing the weight of the mix, or ... it's just a bug where worms can contribute over 100% of their efficiency. For what it's worth i'm pretty sure it's the former.

[paljarro]

I made the same conclusion lachlaan and made some formulas on how I think it works:

he=(0.5*(10-bp)*be + 0.5*wef*(10-wp)*we+0.5*(1-wef)*9*25)/(0.5*(10-bp)+0.5*wef*(10-wp)+0.5*(1-wef)*9)

with:

with: if wef>1, then wef=1

we=(0.04*(10-wxp)*wxe + 0.16*(10-pxp)*pxe))+....+..../(0.04*(10-bp)+0.16*(10-wp)+...+...
wp=(Salt^2 + mercury^2 + sulphur^2 + lead^2) * 12 - 2

be=(0.6*(10-wop)*woe + 0.4*(10-np)*ne))/(0.6*(10-wop)+0.4*(10-np))
bp=(Salt^2 + mercury^2 + sulphur^2 + lead^2) * 12 - 2

e=element (calculations must be done for each element
p=purity multiplier (number between 1 and 10)
h=humus
w=average worm
b=compost bin
wx=worm x
px=python x
wef=wormefficiency
wo=wood
n=nails

I havent really tested these formula's yet, but the idea is that ingredients with high purity have a smaller factor as ingredients with low purity, which is why it is ineffective to use highly pure worms with a 25/25/25/25 compost bin.

When you look at the graph made 1 or 2 pages back that putted compost bin purity vs humus purity and where it was concluded that it was linear. If you want to see it, then you can see that at the beginning the line goes up slightly stronger (which is why I choosed 0.6 as woodfactor for the compost bin>0.3 for the humus), while when the compostbin gets higher purity the line slowly bends down, however there is no data with pure enough compost bins to actually conclude this.
Lukily with the worms we do have this data, the data above shows that worms have a 0.02 factor and pythons a 0.08 factor. At 100% wef, this would give a 0.5 factor, however in the early data with 25/25/25/25 bins and very pure worms, those worms do not get close to 0.5 factor, which is because of the purity penalty, which is described in my formula with (10-wp).

One funny conclusion that I made is that if you want to get one of the elements of your humus as high as possible, then it would be best to have the other 3 elements of your worms at the same value to have a lower purity multiplier of the worms. This means that putting your worms in the new cooker, will have a negative impact at your humus element.

[Snowpig]

One funny conclusion that I made is that if you want to get one of the elements of your humus as high as possible, then it would be best to have the other 3 elements of your worms at the same value to have a lower purity multiplier of the worms. This means that putting your worms in the new cooker, will have a negative impact at your humus element.

...which o.t.o.h. supplies to feeding worms with "preferred element high - other elements random" stuff which is foraged/grown.

[Burseig]

More data.
This time I put pythons and worms on the same graph and even a mix on the second graph.
To do so, I add the value of worm or python (above 25), but to put worms on the same graph as python, I divide the worm value by 4. (I said I noticed that python are 4 times more efficient than worms).

humus3.PNG (33.15 KiB) Viewed 3227 times

What we can see is that all seems to go along well. Except in the high values but I guess this is due to the rounding of our numbers. The more worm/pythons there is, the more errors we include in our calculations.

But I' m worried. I' m sure I'm missing something, because here I don't explain why neutral worms that spawn in a bin decrease the humus value.
In those tables I basically add each worm contribution, like worm A give 0,2 to humus, worm B 0,15, so neutral worm should give 0 and have no impact on humus alchemy...

[lachlaan]

I noticed that for low purity worms and low purity bins(which are the norm currently) if you do (He - 25)/ Weff / (normally averaged worm element) you'll get a value just under 0.5 , I take that to mean that in a situation where the purity of the bin and of the averaged worms is the same, the weight of each is 50%. Now, if you take a look at stuff where worms had a purity multiplier of say 6.4, the same calculation will yield a result along the lines of 0.17, which means the weight of the worms is way lower when the purities are way different. I've been too lazy to find the relationship between that calculation and the way purity actually factors into the whole thing, but hopefully I can point you in the right direction. Great work with the graphs Keep up the good work

[Wournos]

All these fancy graphs and numbers aside... if I want to up my worm purity, I should just keep adding plants that has a higher value of my chosen element compared to the value of the worm, right? I didn't bother to take notes of worm progression (because I do that for so many other things *sigh*).

I've noticed that when creating, for example, plant pots, the outcome is the average of all material put together. So is it same to assume worms work the same way?