Sevenless' Guide to the New World - Now with Community Help

[Sevenless]

Added to the Mines/Metal section: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=181&p=1737#p1741

[MagicManICT]

Was just reading through this again and spotted something:

Apparently, mines are very very common. In the world, I'd say you might see a mine one every 100 tiles.

Is that about 1 mine node per 100 tiles square (10x10 area) or 10,000 tiles square (100x100 area)? I'm guessing the latter, but clarification would be good.


How Smelters Work (as of Sep 14/2012)

Currently there is no random function involved in smelting. Each % "chance" you get is actually more like a % of an earned bar. When the smelter has accumulated 100% of a bar, that load will generate a bar of metal.

One thing veteran smelters might have noticed is that you get a bar every 2 smelts when not using any lime. I'm not sure how/why this happened, but the formula for smelting originally given was either wrong or has since been ninja updated. The current formula for the amount of bars "earned" by a smelter is as follows:

2% + 1%/lime per piece of ore in the smelter. 25 pieces of ore therefor generate 50% of a bar. 24 ore and 1 lime however generate 72% of a bar.
[/quote]

Actually, I think I can point to when this was updated, but I'm not sure if it was announced publicly or privately. I'd have to dig for the post, but seems like it was back in April/May. (have we really been at "beta" for six months now?) When jorb said it was changed, I didn't quite understand what was meant, now I do. The formula should still be the same if I recall the post right. What was changed that smelting was cumulative so that, as discovered, you fill a meter and get a bar when it's full.

[Sevenless]

I meant per 100 tiles walked, although in reality I have absolutely no way of testing/knowing that for sure (therefore no one else does either cept jorbtar maybe). When you stack all the mine types/purities together though, and if you made them all visible mines would seem ridiculously common compared to what we can actually see with a rod.

I know about that post, I'm referring to the base % per ore. It was claimed to be 1% when they explained the system to us, but it's definitely 2% per ore now at least. The accumulator is another matter aside.

[tafkas]

Two things still a bit unclear to me. First, do the "accumulation %" passes over from one smelt process to the other or when the bar is generated it's wiped? If not, doesn't make sense much.
Second, if this was true, the smelting results should be very linear: 13 ore (26%) + 12 lime (24%) should only like produce 50% of a bar, when it actually produces (most of the time) 200% (two bars).

Also purity smelts would be very easy: load twice 25 ore, burn one out to fill the meter to 50%, load second batch of ore, get 1 bar guaranteed. Is it like this? I've noticed all kind of random results, like 1 bar in first try and then two runs of 25 without any bars, but maybe my memory fails. Just looking to see if it has been extensively tested.

[MagicManICT]

Second, if this was true, the smelting results should be very linear: 13 ore (26%) + 12 lime (24%) should only like produce 50% of a bar, when it actually produces (most of the time) 200% (two bars).

IF 2% (base) + 1% per lime is the formula, then

2% + 12 % = 14%

13 * .14 = 1.82

This means you should get two bars about every 4 out of 5 runs if this description of the mechanics is accurate.

[Sevenless]

Two things still a bit unclear to me. First, do the "accumulation %" passes over from one smelt process to the other or when the bar is generated it's wiped? If not, doesn't make sense much.
Second, if this was true, the smelting results should be very linear: 13 ore (26%) + 12 lime (24%) should only like produce 50% of a bar, when it actually produces (most of the time) 200% (two bars).

Also purity smelts would be very easy: load twice 25 ore, burn one out to fill the meter to 50%, load second batch of ore, get 1 bar guaranteed. Is it like this? I've noticed all kind of random results, like 1 bar in first try and then two runs of 25 without any bars, but maybe my memory fails. Just looking to see if it has been extensively tested.

Accumulation is tracked for every smelt

The smelting formula is 2% + 1% *per* ore. That means you get 2%+12% per ore in your example, or a total of 1.82.

Purity smelts are very easy. You get a bar every other load without lime.

All of this has been tested extensively by my miner. He can, and has, managed to get a bar of iron out of a single piece of ore with nothing else in the smelter. The exception is the 1.82 smelts, I'm unsure what those test results are because they are definitely bad for the cost ratios per bar compared to running 10 or less lime. He may have tested them, but we don't run them regularly.


Pay attention to the fact that getting the most bars/smelt is not the "best" way to smelt at all.

[zeph2]

I meant per 100 tiles walked, although in reality I have absolutely no way of testing/knowing that for sure (therefore no one else does either cept jorbtar maybe). When you stack all the mine types/purities together though, and if you made them all visible mines would seem ridiculously common compared to what we can actually see with a rod.

I know about that post, I'm referring to the base % per ore. It was claimed to be 1% when they explained the system to us, but it's definitely 2% per ore now at least. The accumulator is another matter aside.

....

[Sevenless]

Yes, that's roughly how you do it. There's a guide to prospecting hiding somewhere on the forums but the original poster doesn't want it posted openly in the help forums.

I've no real interest in writing one because I know this system is going to be overhauled/scrapped eventually.

[tafkas]

I get it now. As for "1 ore = 1 bar", must be true, because i accidentally filled 12 ore today and fired up the smelter (without lime). And i got 1 bar or pure iron. It was the 2nd run of a new built smelter.

[Feedzor]

Hello.
I see on the wiki in the % table a percentage for a possible third Iron bar. Is this really comfirmed?
Since I have done a mountain of smelts with 13 ore - 12 lime now and only get 1 or 2 all the time.
One would say that with a 20% chance for a third, this would have happened by now.
I hope you can share your insight in the matter.