Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Forum for off topic and general discussion.

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Dallane » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:39 pm

Ronch wrote:
Rifmaster wrote:
Where was this? Were they Shia or sunni? How educated were they?

It was in the Middle-East, their turf.

I didn't inquire if they were Sunni or Shia, but can make an assumption base on geographical location that the majority of the folks that I encountered were Sunni.

That majority were also probably highly educated judging by their composure and visible wealth, while others were obviously not well educated at all in terms of what the western World considers "educated".


nice man. where were you stationed over there? I have coworkers who loved it over there who were non combat types.
Please click this link for a better salem forum experience

TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
User avatar
Dallane
Moderator
 
Posts: 15119
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:00 pm

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Ronch » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:51 pm

@ Dallane, I was attached to the 5th fleet at the time I was in the Middle-east.
Yeah, I had a blast, the Middle-east was surprisingly mellow, welcoming and beautiful compared to what I was expecting.

I can empathize with Riff though, I served in the Aegean and Balkans too with the 6th fleet, and I noticed the resident Muslims there had a much more aggressive attitude about everything in general.
But, I think their resentment and anger sprouted from a war-torn and/or an unrelieved impoverished environment that they've been forced to live in, more-so than from any religious beliefs they have or don't have.
Reviresco wrote:I log into this game and have fun.
User avatar
Ronch
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:46 am

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Taipion » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:05 am

it's always not the religion that is the problem, religion is frequently used as a tool though

humans fear what they do not know, fear leads to hatred...
people with a troubled history, or "bad" lifes, mostly in generally impoverished and badly educated and/or war torn countries are most susceptible for this trick,
part of it is pointing out an "enemy" and blaming their problems onto "them",
with that, it is easy to control people, and get them behind you,
the exact same trick is what brought nazis to power in 1933,
it's played time and time again to various degrees and in various ways, but the underlying mechanics stay the same,
and again, religion is a tool, not the underlying problem
Need something? Here is my Shop (Including some useful info for new/returning players at the bottom of the first post)
Taipion
 
Posts: 2386
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:12 pm

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Chrumps » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:09 am

Rifmaster wrote:It is certain that after the breakup of Yugoslavia, all the nations started becoming more religious, my theory is that it's because people couldn't accept that we are all genetically the same, so they had to find a way to herd up with the folks that fought beside them in the war. A lot of people used religion to achieve this, slowly becoming more and more radical in their beliefs.

In the times of hardship people tend to become more religious, no matter what the religion is and yes, religion is a good glue to keep the herd together. In a way religion is a method of dealing
(or just accepting) with difficulties that are not dependent on our actions.
I was asking about financial status of that family partially because I believe they were still worse than before war, even if better than their average neighbour.
Rifmaster wrote:So they just either called themselves Croats (this doesn't happen anymore) or simply muslims. Nowadays the correct term is Bosniak, and muslim is purely a religious thing.

So again, at some point religion was important to group identity, and I guess it still is. That's why it is hard to ignore it.
Rifmaster wrote:They are Bosnians, and mostly they study in Bosnia. Religion teachers are certainly not the ones that are going to turn you into an ISIS militant. They could totally turn you into a conservative muslim though (which i think is bad on it's own). And then, after your prayer in the mosque, you start talking with the wrong people who are probably only there to recruit you into some isolated hardcore muslim community, and before you know it you're in ISIS. That's what the guy with the ISIS family told me anyway.

That sounds credible. Good for you probably (meaning lesser evil). I have seen reports about placing foreign-trained imams in mosques. I guess, since you have native imams, recruitment is somewhat more difficult.
Rifmaster wrote:I find it very difficult to talk about anything meaningful with muslims who take the religion seriously, I just feel like they bring God into everything, I can't even talk about music because they don't listen to it. Would have 5 Christian friends over 5 equally religious muslim friends any day of the week.

Have to disagree.
I have been in Tunisia (2007), pre-revolution, and Turkey (2009) and had none to little problems interacting with local people. Though my expectation was to encounter cultural differences so I easily blamed all difficulties on that. It is more difficult to accept that your neighbour has a different culture.
Then again tourist zones easily can have different (sub)culture, because livelihood of people there depends on ensuring pleasant stay of guests.
Couple years ago I was In Russia and stayed in a hired flat with another engineer working on the same project for a few days. He was a muslim. We talked a lot about life style in different places of the world and about Chinese slowly colonizing eastern parts of Russia. We had absolutely no problem finding an interesting subject to talk.
Though I guess you could not talk with myself about music too much. It's just less interesting to me.

I recall also meeting a Dutch family somewhere near Balaton lake in Hungary. We stopped in the rest area because of a traffic jam. We were driving back home, they were driving to Turkey to visit their family. They shared with us and with other people a watermelon, we had a nice talk about travelling, working abroad and about how Turkish PM, Erdogan is seen in Europe.

And another two-part story:
Couple years ago I was in Mostar in one of restaurants with beautiful view at the rebuilt Old Bridge. I noticed in the menu the only kind of beer was non-alcoholic one so I asked the waitress why is it so. She told me that in this part of town alcohol is forbidden, because there is Turkish consulate nearby and in general this is Muslim part of the town but they of course can sell me normal alcoholic beer, of the same make as non-alcoholic one. As a driver I still chose the alcohol free version though.

Couple years later we were in Ulcinj in another restaurant with a beautiful view. I knew this part of Montenegro is inhabited mostly by Albanians and they are mostly Muslims. I noticed they had no problems listing all the alcoholic drinks in the menu. Seeing the crew was quite relaxed and in talkative mood I told them the story from Mostar and then asked how it is possible that here they have absolutely no problem with alcohol, in a place where majority is Muslim while in Mostar it was sold from under the counter. The reply was that in Bosnia they are more strict about religion and in Montenegro they are more relaxed about religious regulations.

Rifmaster wrote:The government islam thing sounds a bit conspiracy theorish to me. Also muslims who take their religion seriously only really want shariah law anyway so I don't see why the current governments would ever want more Islam in their countries in that regard.

It is weird. but I can't really see sensible reasons to why governments are discouraging natural growth of local population and encourage immigration. Sharia law is not a problem, why it would be. It might be a problem to subjects, but not to overlords. Not really related to Islam though. It's more about whom democratically elected governments are actually representing.

Also:
Lucius Annaeus Seneca wrote:Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
Chrumps
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:51 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Taipion » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:29 am

Chrumps wrote:In the times of hardship people tend to become more religious, no matter what the religion is

lol

there is a proverb here that basically translates to: in a trench, there are no atheists
Need something? Here is my Shop (Including some useful info for new/returning players at the bottom of the first post)
Taipion
 
Posts: 2386
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:12 pm

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Dallane » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:26 am

Ronch wrote:@ Dallane, I was attached to the 5th fleet at the time I was in the Middle-east.
Yeah, I had a blast, the Middle-east was surprisingly mellow, welcoming and beautiful compared to what I was expecting.

I can empathize with Riff though, I served in the Aegean and Balkans too with the 6th fleet, and I noticed the resident Muslims there had a much more aggressive attitude about everything in general.
But, I think their resentment and anger sprouted from a war-torn and/or an unrelieved impoverished environment that they've been forced to live in, more-so than from any religious beliefs they have or don't have.


Nice dude! I've always heard awesome things about the bases over there. Some deployments sound like vacations almost depending on your job. One of the guys I'm working with now went directly from the navy to doing 10+ years of contracting work there. He loved that place but didn't want to raise his kids there.
Please click this link for a better salem forum experience

TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
User avatar
Dallane
Moderator
 
Posts: 15119
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:00 pm

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Ronch » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:42 am

@ Dallane, yes, it's awesome there, like you said; really is like a (nice) vacation for the most part.
But I wouldn't want my kid's growing up there either, not saying that in a derogatory way though.
...I totally understand your friend's decision.
Reviresco wrote:I log into this game and have fun.
User avatar
Ronch
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:46 am

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby gorniksam » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:01 am

i dont have any experience with islam, cuz we dont have this **** in my country
steeloxidex wrote:Lel, this game is ****, you probably all only play it because you have garbage computers that cant play real games.

I am going to go play some real games. LOL scrubs.

Image
User avatar
gorniksam
 
Posts: 2188
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:49 am
Location: heffernan's heart

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Judaism » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:37 am

Islam is terrible and my country is getting infested.
Turkish/Moroccans people either do criminality here, or don't do **** with welfare. After 4 generations they still somehow feel more Moroccan/Turkish despite hardly ever visiting the relevant country. The fast majority does not care about Islam, however when it comes down to their family they are obligated to ''care'' to save face.

No all religions are garbage, that said Islam is quite bad and we get so many Syrian immigrants alongside economic immigrants from central-Africa also mostly Islamic, those do even care less about our culture, language and habits.
Sure a fair share of them are proper Dutch people, however in comparison to native Dutch people they are absolute trash and cancerous. The multi-cultural society has failed tremendously and at this point theres not a whole lot we can do against it.
JohnCarver wrote:Mortal Moments Inc. is not here to cannibalize the community or piece out the code. We are not here because we wish to institute pay to win models or PvE servers. Quite the contrary.
User avatar
Judaism
Customer
 
Posts: 3941
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:51 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Heffernan » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:13 pm

Judaism wrote:Islam is terrible and my country is getting infested.
Turkish/Moroccans people either do criminality here, or don't do **** with welfare. After 4 generations they still somehow feel more Moroccan/Turkish despite hardly ever visiting the relevant country. The fast majority does not care about Islam, however when it comes down to their family they are obligated to ''care'' to save face.

No all religions are garbage, that said Islam is quite bad and we get so many Syrian immigrants alongside economic immigrants from central-Africa also mostly Islamic, those do even care less about our culture, language and habits.
Sure a fair share of them are proper Dutch people, however in comparison to native Dutch people they are absolute trash and cancerous. The multi-cultural society has failed tremendously and at this point theres not a whole lot we can do against it.


1% Islam "oh hello we would like to join your country"
15% Islam "we expect mosques in every town, own food, own holidays, own laws"
51% Islam "Convert or Die"

Western Worlds: Internet, Automotive Engine, Airplanes, Spaceflight, DNA
Islam Worlds: Digging in Woman and Throwing Stones on them, Throwing Gays from Buildings, Burning Flags, forced marriage, Wives starting at 6+, Terrorism, Scharia Law, no Woman rights


sure sounds like we should keep allowing these so called "Religion" on planet earth instead of working to slowly Eradicating them by Force-Converting to something less Radical. sure theres some nice people especially in western countries but the Easters countries are a Breed of Radical Terrorism, and its time for the Liberals to wake up...
User avatar
Heffernan
 
Posts: 8457
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:07 pm
Location: Marps Closet

PreviousNext

Return to City upon a Hill

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests