Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Ronch » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:59 pm

@ heff n juda
Yeah that is how democracies and republics work, really I'm serious.
If you have the majority votes, then you get to make and pass new laws... Amazing isn't it ?

I was wondering when "immigration" would raise it's ugly head into this conversation here, and which fear-mongering genius would raise it too. Congratulations...

At one time in my Country, one of my neighboring States was becoming a place where the Muslim population was fast outgrowing every other demographic population in that State via forced immigration policies. (Michigan)
But ya know what, the immigration policies haven't changed, but over a decade ago the folks in that State who were rapidly becoming a minority in their own State, well, they didn't complain or point fingers at Government policies, nor any religions, nor any particular sect of people to be a scape-goat away from taking personal responsibility over their own local issues and concerns.
Instead, they just started having more babies, a lot more babies, baby !

Michigan isn't a State that attracts anyone to move there by employment opportunities, nor by it's harsh weather, nor by it's almost highest crime rate in the Nation.
But, just by those local citizens taking responsibility for their own current environment, they reversed the trend of Muslims outnumbering them in political votes, economic ability and in traditional Western morals n values. They took responsibility of their future by making more babies !
...Look; Without one complaint or mindless-crying-rant nor any naive meme's, Michigan now has a meager 1% Muslim population in the State.
Just because of local folks using their 'minds' and deciding to take personal responsibility to turn the tables on some very negative results of immigration policies imposed on them by elected officials.
They have both brains and balls, and they use'em both too. :shock:
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby TheDuke86 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:47 pm

I put no stock in religion, although I see it’s importance when it comes to building a moral foundation.

That being said the Islam you are all talking about today is the result of the decisions made by the west post 1946. Countries dominant in Islam pre-1946 were progressing as quickly or faster as in the case of the Ottoman Empire. Not saying that the Ottoman Empire was some beacon of good (no countries are, it’s only what perspective you hold which determins it) but as far as science, medicine and technology was progressing at an incredible speed.

The issue with Islam is they have become finatical as a defensive measure. The Middle East has constantly been ***** with by the East (USSR) and the west sense 1909+. Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Lydia, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine have all been ***** with hard by the east, and mainly west for the past 70 years and in recent events. Once we destabilize their country the Muslim brotherhood jumps in and radicallizes the region and boom terrorist hot beds. My good friend is a Christian Refugee from Iran durring the fall of the Shaw. He lived peacefully with Muslims and Jews alike, until the US pushed Shaw out. Then the Muslim Brotherhood jumps in with the Iotola and becomes hell bent on Israel destruction. You look at Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan In the 60’s and it is unrecognizable from its modern development. If you know, work or talk to Muslims you’ll notice they are just people that want to live and let live. I work with a bunch of Afghans and Irainians and they don’t give a ***** what I do, so long as I dont step on their toes. The same as 99% of other Americans.

Those in Europe dealing with Muslims. You are dealing with a people who just lost everything they own due to proxy wars fought by the west and east. They don’t want to assimilate to your culture, they never wanted to leave their way of life in the first place, of course there not going change to your customs. Vote smarter simple as that. Your countries partake in ***** them over and then allow them in after the fact lol. Don’t vote ******* prime ministers that destroy governments and then accept their Refugees. Why should you, or your government give a ***** if Assad is influence by Russia, or repeated countless times In other Arab countries. Let Israel handle its own **** we’ve helped them enough, and let them live in their own ways.

You want peace with Islam, it’s easy. Stop with the regime changes and let Israel defend itself without western aid. All of this escilation in the Middle East is over our alliance with Israel and conflict with Russia. There not worth it. ***** Israel let them fend for themselves. The west can just sanction the East into the third world.
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Ronch » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:52 pm

TheDuke86 wrote:
I put no stock in religion, although I see it’s importance when it comes to building a moral foundation.

That being said the Islam you are all talking about today is the result of the decisions made by the west post 1946. Countries dominant in Islam pre-1946 were progressing as quickly or faster as in the case of the Ottoman Empire. Not saying that the Ottoman Empire was some beacon of good (no countries are, it’s only what perspective you hold which determins it) but as far as science, medicine and technology was progressing at an incredible speed.

The issue with Islam is they have become finatical as a defensive measure. The Middle East has constantly been ***** with by the East (USSR) and the west sense 1909+. Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Lydia, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine have all been ***** with hard by the east, and mainly west for the past 70 years and in recent events. Once we destabilize their country the Muslim brotherhood jumps in and radicallizes the region and boom terrorist hot beds. My good friend is a Christian Refugee from Iran durring the fall of the Shaw. He lived peacefully with Muslims and Jews alike, until the US pushed Shaw out. Then the Muslim Brotherhood jumps in with the Iotola and becomes hell bent on Israel destruction. You look at Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan In the 60’s and it is unrecognizable from its modern development. If you know, work or talk to Muslims you’ll notice they are just people that want to live and let live. I work with a bunch of Afghans and Irainians and they don’t give a ***** what I do, so long as I dont step on their toes. The same as 99% of other Americans.

Those in Europe dealing with Muslims. You are dealing with a people who just lost everything they own due to proxy wars fought by the west and east. They don’t want to assimilate to your culture, they never wanted to leave their way of life in the first place, of course there not going change to your customs. Vote smarter simple as that. Your countries partake in ***** them over and then allow them in after the fact lol. Don’t vote ******* prime ministers that destroy governments and then accept their Refugees. Why should you, or your government give a ***** if Assad is influence by Russia, or repeated countless times In other Arab countries. Let Israel handle its own **** we’ve helped them enough, and let them live in their own ways.

You want peace with Islam, it’s easy. Stop with the regime changes and let Israel defend itself without western aid. All of this escilation in the Middle East is over our alliance with Israel and conflict with Russia. There not worth it. ***** Israel let them fend for themselves. The west can just sanction the East into the third world.
Right on bro !
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Rifmaster » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:36 pm

I'd say most muslims in Europe are not actually from the middle east. The ones in the current immigration crisis anyway are mostly from Africa and Pakistan/Bangladesh (Those fellas have walked a loooooong way). A very large percentage of muslim immigrants have not lost anything in their home countries. They just came to the west because it's better in the west, that's how immigration tends to work. But even if they did lose everything in a war, that doesn't really matter at all. I've got the perfect example here, look at what happened in Bosnia some 25 years ago. People lost their whole families, their houses were burned down, they fled to western Europe if they still could. Now, their children who were born in countries like Germany, Austria, etc. don't even speak Bosnian, if their parents didn't bring them back to family reunions in Bosnia they would never even set foot in this country again. How could they assimilate into society in other countries, but these muslim immigrants can't? You're probably going to say that it's because the culture difference between European countries is much smaller than between Europe and the middle east. And that's where I say, I dont actually give a ****. If you want to live in a society, you better follow that society's rules, and act like the people around you. Otherwise you will get rejected, and that's what's happening right now. Nobody in Europe would have a problem with muslim immigrants if they simply tried to assimilate into European society, but they just don't, they huddle up with their own, and remain the same as they were because Islam is not just a religion, it's an ideology and top to bottom guide on how to live your life like a 5th century camel herder.
I do still acknowledge that there are muslims who are well educated, chill and pretty well integrated into western society. They are the ones that don't do everything the quran and hadith tell them to do. They're also probably more common in the US though, given that one needs to be a helluva lot smarter and probably more educated (automatically making him less radical) to make it to the US than to just walk to Europe.

Also the pre 1946 thing is just not true. The Ottoman empire is the WORST example you could have brought up. An empire struggling to keep up with the western world, completely missing the industrial revolutions and only being saved by rapid reform to mimic the western world in the 1930s.

PS. I ***** hate writing walls of text
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Ronch » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:08 am

@ Riff, I think the main point that Duke was trying to make was that when one group of people suppress, oppress, severely neglect or alienate a weaker group of people, then immigration of angry vengeful folks are usually the default results.
In this case it was my Country the US, and also Russia, and also the heavy weight Nation's of Europe ie: France, Britain, Germany and to a certain extent Italy being the oppressing Governments.
With the Middle-east, Africa, South-east Asia and South America being the oppressed peoples.
...Leaving most other even remotely stable Nations not mentioned above now bearing the brunt of the resulting immigration into them, most entering with blind/unreasonable attitudes or even some with vengeance set in their hearts too.

Also, I thought Duke only referenced the Ottoman empire in regard to Islam's unique historical scientific advancements pre 18 century.
Meaning, the Muslims were doing great until the bullies of the World saw something that they wanted in or from that Empire and used war and/or any other hostile tactic(s) to get it.

But hey; I couldn't agree with you more about the large majority of Immigrants into Europe (but even to the US too) are indeed immigrating for financial opportunity reasons.
...Although, in my opinion most if not all of the negative financial situations that they are trying to flee from, were and still are brought on by international-policies of again: the Governments of the US, Russia, Britain, France, Germany and to a lesser extent Italy too.
Plus within the next few years folks will begin to realize that China's Government has now also entered into the international oppressor's club, and they will probably end up being the biggest bully of them all, by far.
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Judaism » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:10 pm

Ronch wrote:Instead, they just started having more babies, a lot more babies, baby !


You're an idiot, first of all these people have significant more babies than native Dutch people. That is because in those region they are used to having large families, while (even on average including all the immigrants) has only an average of 1.75 children per woman.

Basically I am saying that just like many other developed countries, such as Germany and Japan we are basically not growing our population. Hence we are even declining, obviously slightly better than Germany and significantly better than Japan (which is insane).

So on top of that Europe takes in millions of immigrants a year and here the retarded American comes with his statement ''they have the brains and the balls, go *****''. I have always questioned your intellectual capacity but with your last reply I can only conclude that you are a potato and a self-centered American who knows very little to nothing about the outside world, by that I meant the other 96% of the world by population in case it was not clear enough.

You cannot out-do it simply by having more babies and even if that were true we would still have a huge problem if we are forced to change our way of life simply to keep a white-European majority. No we should just fully stop with immigration, or when we do kick them out later when its stable, which Europe is extremely soft on. Other than that we need a hard and forced immigration, we also need to get rid of dual nationality.

Many of these things the USA already has, it follows a rough immigration policy which is good. In comparison to European countries, it hardly takes in Immigrants.

To this day, candidates for US citizenship through naturalization are forced to (at least hypothetically) renounce their previous citizenship at the United States naturalization ceremony.


The problem many European countries have lies mainly in the existing issues that simply do not go away. Not to be a racist, but its somewhat compared to the African-Americans but then to a bigger extend. In comparison to the average White-American they have tenfold as much issues. Imagine that all of them consider themselves to be Africans and also are supported and influenced by those countries. They remain their vote-rights for those countries, they send over their money and many indirect issues from that as well.

On topic of ''simply make more babies'' here is something for the ''White-Americans'':
The US will become ‘minority white’ in 2045, Census projects
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Heffernan » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:14 pm

Judaism wrote:
Ronch wrote:Instead, they just started having more babies, a lot more babies, baby !


You're an idiot, first of all these people have significant more babies than native Dutch people. That is because in those region they are used to having large families, while (even on average including all the immigrants) has only an average of 1.75 children per woman.

Basically I am saying that just like many other developed countries, such as Germany and Japan we are basically not growing our population. Hence we are even declining, obviously slightly better than Germany and significantly better than Japan (which is insane).

So on top of that Europe takes in millions of immigrants a year and here the retarded American comes with his statement ''they have the brains and the balls, go *****''. I have always questioned your intellectual capacity but with your last reply I can only conclude that you are a potato and a self-centered American who knows very little to nothing about the outside world, by that I meant the other 96% of the world by population in case it was not clear enough.

You cannot out-do it simply by having more babies and even if that were true we would still have a huge problem if we are forced to change our way of life simply to keep a white-European majority. No we should just fully stop with immigration, or when we do kick them out later when its stable, which Europe is extremely soft on. Other than that we need a hard and forced immigration, we also need to get rid of dual nationality.

Many of these things the USA already has, it follows a rough immigration policy which is good. In comparison to European countries, it hardly takes in Immigrants.

To this day, candidates for US citizenship through naturalization are forced to (at least hypothetically) renounce their previous citizenship at the United States naturalization ceremony.


The problem many European countries have lies mainly in the existing issues that simply do not go away. Not to be a racist, but its somewhat compared to the African-Americans but then to a bigger extend. In comparison to the average White-American they have tenfold as much issues. Imagine that all of them consider themselves to be Africans and also are supported and influenced by those countries. They remain their vote-rights for those countries, they send over their money and many indirect issues from that as well.

On topic of ''simply make more babies'' here is something for the ''White-Americans'':
The US will become ‘minority white’ in 2045, Census projects


not wanna sound like a alt-right conspiracy theorist but dont you think they have larger families and literally massbreed to take over western countries?
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Judaism » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:42 pm

Heffernan wrote:not wanna sound like a alt-right conspiracy theorist but dont you think they have larger families and literally massbreed to take over western countries?


Lol no, but even 3rd and 4th generations are separated and not integrated. With the masses of immigrants flowing into our countries we are truly losing our roots, culture and receive all the damn issues that flow from that. We as Europe have done enough and tried plenty. It simply is not working, the people are getting sick of it and we just need to stop the immigration and force integration on whomever is not properly integrated. If not kick them out, countries such as America already do this, we are just softies.

But yeah, I do not believe in some grant conspiracy that they are here to take over the western countries. They just want all the perks from us, but do not want to give in on their personal culture and habits. That eventually is a huge risk to our democracy. The European Turks (millions have a dual passport) voted in favor of Erdogan and his slow change to ''remove'' democracy. Meanwhile they do not have **** with that Country, while being more extreme than normal Turkish people.

Thats the fun story, here in Europe they all want to feel special with their religions but when you look in Istanbul you see far less burqa's.
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Ronch » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:36 pm

Judaism wrote:first of all these people have significant more babies than native Dutch people.

Two questions :
1, Do you have any children Juda ?
2, Have you, or are you doing anything other than knee-jerk complaining about a problem (a problem that has multiple solutions) ?
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Re: Islam: Thoughts about it and experiences with it

Postby Chrumps » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:15 pm

Heffernan wrote:not wanna sound like a alt-right conspiracy theorist but dont you think they have larger families and literally massbreed to take over western countries?

I would direct my conspiracy theories elsewhere but regarding overbreeding western countries it is not a conspiracy but simple consequence of policy
Consider following closed system:
There are two States, let's call them A-stan and B-stan.
Citizens of A-stan have low income level per capita but have little expectations on their quality of life. Overall health care is on mediocre to poor level, resulting in lower life expectation, high birth and infancy mortality, part of it resulting form lack of food. In fact food supply is the real limiting factor on population size in the A-stan and any excess population simply dies off due to malnutrition. There is none to little contraceptives available and used. Most people think having babies every year or two is the normal way of life. On the other hand citizens are adapted in practice to "survival of the fittest" rule.

Citizens of B-stan have high income per capita, and expect a lot of their lives and expect and demand best development conditions for their children. That is pared with high quality and costs of medical care on any stage of life. Food supply is not the limiting factor for population size but instead limited resources needed for upkeeping the quality of life force citizens to restrain their desire to haver children and sexual instincts are simply bypassed thanks to contraceptives. In fact the population growth or shrinking is effectively controlled by taxation levels because the higher taxes are the less is left for people to keep their life level and to finance their kids' education.

Now some citizens in B-stan notice that poor A-stanians are starving:
B-stanians: Hey these poor people suffer let's take them here, we have a lot of space, say 1m of them.
A-stanians: Fine. That's kind of you.
But, hey we have space and food to feed another 1m A-stanians.
Puff, ouch , AAAAAA, O YESSSS

5 years later
B-stanians: Hey these poor people suffer let's take them here, we have a lot of space, say 1m of them.
.... to be continued


So no, There is no way to overbred them, just have them live their way as they did. You would not make them more happy by bringing them to Europe.

Judaism wrote:But yeah, I do not believe in some grant conspiracy that they are here to take over the western countries. They just want all the perks from us, but do not want to give in on their personal culture and habits.


Mostly agree in that people would follow where they are herded or lured to. But then one has to put blame on authorities on mismanaging the issue and given the context and earlier experiences what heights of stupidity were needed to not foresee the current situation. That's why there is justified suspicion of malicious intent on authorities side.
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