Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby Taipion » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:05 pm

Yea, and without knowing what he actually thinks about this, we can do little more than speculate and argue with each other, but that will likely not change anything.
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby Goodman12 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:22 pm

I think it's clear to see that Taipion's ideas regarding p claim are profitable to him and others alike and actually doesn't fix anything.
I'm not sure if he's completely delusional and actually believes in the stupid **** he usually post or if he's just trying his best to manipulate the devs into making things better for him by providing some ******, unrelated points on why it is a good idea.
Taipion wrote:[edit:]
Almost forgot, my proposal for changing pclaims would go like this:
- keep it as it is, just with a little lower BB drain than it is now, just a little lower like 2/3 of what it is now, IF it is not payed
- increase the BB drain when the pclaim is payed to like 4/3 of what it is now

This fixes nothing and actually makes things worse.
Makes raiding inactive bases easier.
Makes raiding active bases harder than it already is.
Raiding active bases are the main problem, any idea which suggest that raiding active bases should be harder to raid at this point in the game is simply stupid.
Taipion wrote:- you can now tell, if you are a paying attention, if the claim is payed or not with just stepping on it

How does this actually benefit the raid? Doesn't change the fact that active players can pay the p claim when they get attacked.
Taipion wrote:- having a too big pclaim would actually be a disatvantage in case of being attacked, as upkeep cost increases square whereas the path an attacker has to traveses increases only linerarily

The fact that you're trying to convince everyone that bigger p claims are a disadvantage shows how stupid you are, especially since you have the biggest one on the server(at least the biggest I've seen)
Taipion wrote:- you could scare people into paying their huge claims by faking attacks, and cause massive financial damage that way without actually risking anything

This is the stupidest of all your points thus far.
Basically what you're suggesting here is that you're at a disadvantage since you will have to pay your p claim IF someone choose to attack you or pretend to attack you.
In my opinion, You should pay for the benefits of p claim drain at all times, so paying for it occasionally is far from a disadvantage.
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby Taipion » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:56 pm

Goodman12 wrote:I think it's clear to see that Taipion's ideas regarding p claim are profitable to him and others alike and actually doesn't fix anything.
I'm not sure if he's completely delusional and actually believes in the stupid **** he usually post or if he's just trying his best to manipulate the devs into making things better for him by providing some ******, unrelated points on why it is a good idea.
Taipion wrote:[edit:]
Almost forgot, my proposal for changing pclaims would go like this:
- keep it as it is, just with a little lower BB drain than it is now, just a little lower like 2/3 of what it is now, IF it is not payed
- increase the BB drain when the pclaim is payed to like 4/3 of what it is now

This fixes nothing and actually makes things worse.
Makes raiding inactive bases easier.
Makes raiding active bases harder than it already is.
Raiding active bases are the main problem, any idea which suggest that raiding active bases should be harder to raid at this point in the game is simply stupid.
Taipion wrote:- you can now tell, if you are a paying attention, if the claim is payed or not with just stepping on it

How does this actually benefit the raid? Doesn't change the fact that active players can pay the p claim when they get attacked.
Taipion wrote:- having a too big pclaim would actually be a disatvantage in case of being attacked, as upkeep cost increases square whereas the path an attacker has to traveses increases only linerarily

The fact that you're trying to convince everyone that bigger p claims are a disadvantage shows how stupid you are, especially since you have the biggest one on the server(at least the biggest I've seen)
Taipion wrote:- you could scare people into paying their huge claims by faking attacks, and cause massive financial damage that way without actually risking anything

This is the stupidest of all your points thus far.
Basically what you're suggesting here is that you're at a disadvantage since you will have to pay your p claim IF someone choose to attack you or pretend to attack you.
In my opinion, You should pay for the benefits of p claim drain at all times, so paying for it occasionally is far from a disadvantage.


I can assure you that my own pclaim is rather humble, compared to some other people around here.

My suggestion was just that, an idea, and I especially said that the BB drain values should be decided by the devs according to what they intend.
Leaving the "payed" value at what it is, and putting the "unpayed" at 1/2 of that is maybe also fine, but that is not my part to decide, I just provided some numbers to start with.

You insulting me and intentionally misreading my posts and spewing forth false accusations does not make you look good, in fact, it is obvious that you want raiding to be easier, and you would say anything to achieve that.

I said it before and I say it again:
If you cant raid a(n inactive) base because of a big pclaim, then you likely could not have raided it without that pclaim either.
The money invested into one is kind of a bad deal for what you get, compared to putting those resources into actual defense.
"Fixing" the pclaim is a bad idea before its necessity in every defense is fixed, that is, getting shot by def DOES need to refresh the crime timer, otherwise all this makes no sense.
A big pclaim adds proportional value to all existing actual defense, and is pretty pointless without defense.
It is a nice way to "show off" and a decent silver sink, especially if paying it provides some benefits.

The current benefit is, that it is indestructable (asides from eminent domain), which is ok-ish, and probably a reason to fill your pclaim when you are under siege, which again is fine.
This "siege mode" (= difference in BB drain if payed/unpayed) could be a pretty nice thing, as being at war (or at least threatened) should be costly, or at least more costly than sitting there idle in peace and harmony.

And without JC, all this discussion makes little sense.
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby Goodman12 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:04 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:*sigh* No, that's not the norm.

Line of Sight
Crit bug with last ammo in defenses
Changes to crime system
Bodies dropping on deep water
Scalps giving lower values than it actually is (not sure if this fixed or not but as it is hard to tell since you don't know the original scalp value of your target.But I have not seen a post on the forum stating that it was fixed so I'll just have to assume it is still there)
And I'm pretty sure there's more which I cannot remember off the top of my head.
I'd say it's a norm, at least when the changes which needs to be made are regarding the pvp aspect of the game
TotalyMeow wrote:and the wishes of the entire community and adds something he thinks will be fun to code and test instead of something that needs to be done.

If JC really and truly is too busy to code salem as much as he would like to due to irl obligations, I'm all fine with that.
If we get 1 update a year I'm also fine with that as I literally don't care about anything else in this game but pvp
But the above statement is why I am complaining as much as I am right now.
JC chose to buy the game and with it came the responsibility of keeping the community happy. It's already bad enough that rl obligations is stopping him from fulfilling his duties, what makes it worse is that the LITTLE time he spends coding(if any) he would do his own thing instead of putting aside his arrogant attitude and making the important changes which the game needs.
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby TotalyMeow » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:13 pm

I really think that any detrimental effect to the Pclaim from not being paid should be something that doesn't have to do with raiding. People don't get raided that often, but I feel the disadvantage to not paying your claim should be immediately apparent. Being able to just toss a few hundred silver into a stone when you think you might be in danger is the exact situation we have now so I don't see how making it easier to raid an inactive base benefits anyone except maybe a few raiders who will now be able to tell if the stone is empty on a base they think is dead.

Maybe reducing claim size isn't the best solution, but it seems like a workable one to me, and one which shouldn't impact anyone who hasn't either left the game for a very long time (assuming we also increase storage) or who isn't right now sort of cheating getting all the benefits from an empty stone with none of the cost. This has the added advantage of letting those who overbought on their claims because they thought they wouldn't have to pay for it, reduce their claims without having to destroy them entirely and rebuild.

But this is getting a little off topic. Let's get back to how much better the game was when the Tribe was active. I think that's what this is really about. You all miss the Tribe and their over the top antics. Yeah, me too.
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby MaxPlanck » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:16 pm

Goodman12 wrote:On another note, I find the shrinkage of p claims to be a dumb idea.
Empty p claims should not have the benefits of the claim drain and even after it is paid(after being empty)the claim drain should take about a week or so to activate.


But then it'd act as a tclaim in regards to no drain except you cant reduce the size of an enemy pclaim like you can reduce the size of a tclaim via boundary stone/flag removal.

A person can still expand exponentially across the map with their big pclaim without worry of their expansion being halted because a tclaim expansion requires walls, etc. to protect the expansion. While drain may be disregarded if left empty the player owning the pclaim will still own that land and you will still need to leave scents to do anything there(albeit just trespassing scents if they don't build a wall, but if they do build just one huge wall around their pclaimed expansion then they get free scents to use against the raider without risk of giving up that built wall as it is not at risk of being taken over for the raiders use like expanding out a tclaim only area.

Your suggestion is like an empty pclaim acts as a tclaim without the tbf warning and without the risk of losing owned land.
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby Taipion » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:29 pm

Yea, this is likely getting too much into detail of how claims work or should work, and now we also need to address how endlessly expanding your pclaim is at least a theoretical option...
As long as the claim is below 4m silver, it does not actually break anything. :lol:

What was this thread about?
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby Judaism » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:34 pm

Taipon is missing the point that the Pclaims do counter progressive raiding, regardless of the drain or not. You will have to get rid of the Pclaim before damaging the town objects will make any sense due to the fact that Pclaim is superior to a Townbell.

The pclaims should absolutely not override a town, nor have significant advantages over the town claim.

For example, we woud've been able to slowely push into Heffernan's base for example, take over large parts of his base as we destroyed a chunk of his town area's. With Pclaims the job is not done up untill you reach it and then in most cases you can't even destroy it. A 500.000 pclaim will take so much resources and time to domain, then you also have the issue of actually covering the Pclaim.
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby Nsuidara » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:38 pm

I already mentioned that we plan to add a line of sight mechanic to tbf because we also don't like the donut claims and never have.

doesn't make sense ?
if you people "line of sight mechanic to tbf" mean like walls block TBF ?
- first need destroy walls
- next use TBF
not made this mechanic usless ?

Meybe i mistake... but if i good remember player also can immediately summon crime player with scent, when scent will be used pclaim stone / leanto ? (or something that) ?
when TBF need wait 24h ? :P

or i confused...

edit. ofc. i like this idea :P but... :P

IF JC dont have time for salem... he should find other people for codding... i think really few people can made script for free... (hobby)
including me :P
Meow give list bugs/ideas = go implement coding...

edit. i think problem is "The Evidence picked up into inventory can be stored for up to 90 days and used to get revenge." if wiki not lie :P
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Re: Was Salem a better game before MM took over?

Postby Taipion » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:04 pm

Judaism wrote:Taipon is missing the point that the Pclaims do counter progressive raiding, regardless of the drain or not. You will have to get rid of the Pclaim before damaging the town objects will make any sense due to the fact that Pclaim is superior to a Townbell.

The pclaims should absolutely not override a town, nor have significant advantages over the town claim.

For example, we woud've been able to slowely push into Heffernan's base for example, take over large parts of his base as we destroyed a chunk of his town area's. With Pclaims the job is not done up untill you reach it and then in most cases you can't even destroy it. A 500.000 pclaim will take so much resources and time to domain, then you also have the issue of actually covering the Pclaim.


That's a valid point, yet pclaim and tclaim are still different.

With the tclaim, the defender has the option of attacking the TbF and thereby disturbing the attack, whereas the pclaim does not provide that benefit.

It would be probably a good thing to overhaul the 2 claims and further emphasize on their use and distinct characteristics, this again, is leading much too far from the actual problem though.
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