Here we go again - Murica Version

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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby Zapt13 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:49 pm

Taipion wrote:Have not heard of this in the news yet.

I always wonder what they actually gain from this though.


I didn't used to think much of it, as there is only a small chance that myself or my family would be involved. But lately I must admit I've begun thinking things like NOT taking a vacation to Europe because I'm less likely to be attacked in my own home. If they can successfully affect the lives of those they hate in a negative way (especially a way that makes people feel fear or terror), then they are "winning", right?
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby Taipion » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:21 pm

Zapt13 wrote:
Taipion wrote:Have not heard of this in the news yet.

I always wonder what they actually gain from this though.


I didn't used to think much of it, as there is only a small chance that myself or my family would be involved. But lately I must admit I've begun thinking things like NOT taking a vacation to Europe because I'm less likely to be attacked in my own home. If they can successfully affect the lives of those they hate in a negative way (especially a way that makes people feel fear or terror), then they are "winning", right?


Define: "winning" (no Charly please ^^)

I can see that an intend would be, to strike fear in the hearts of their "enemies", to, for instance, stop them from influencing them and their countries for whatever reason.
But the result is the exact opposite.

Think of Afghanistan.
The Taliban were in nice, firm control of the whole place until they decided to "attack" murica, even though they were so nice as to plan a precise operation like that to strike at a time where there were the least possible casualties, could have been 50k or so instead, no one really noticed their niceness.
I suddenly think of "wag the dog" anytime I think of Afghanistan, it's just that hillarious.

Now, I don't know what ISIS is trying to achieve with terrorism, they should thank murica for totally destabilizing the area, otherwise ISIS would not even exist.
Starting with invading Iraque in Operation Iraqui Liberation or so, justifying their invasion with knowingly and intentionally faked evidence for weapons of mass destruction.
And then replacing one cruel despot and a few deaths per day with outright hell.

And then secretary John Kerry said, after Russia took Crimea, that a superpower in the 21st century must not invade foreign countries with arms and under false pretenses.
When I heard that, I fell of my chair, had not have a laugh as good as this in quite a while.

But I am getting off the point here, sorry.
So the thing is, they want to kill all heretics, sure, why not, that's as good a reason as any.
And they want to spread their religion, noted.
And they want to drive out western influence off their territory, sure.
But all I can see is the exact opposite due to the effects of terrorism, it seems to be weakening them, rather than doing anything for them.
Not to even speak of working for them, in a way that they would gain something from it, which would bring in "revenue" and allow them to continue or even expand their "business".

Or did I overlook something?
Is their any real value they get off this?
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby Zapt13 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:52 pm

They may be over-zealous and short-sighted and even be willfully ignorant of the long term effects that their enemies will strike back, but the initial result of instilling fear (at least in myself) is starting to work. And if all of their enemies were to be simultaneously overcome with fear, then the striking back would never materialize. So history shows us that the world will respond and overpower these groups, but each is so strongly subscribed to their beliefs and the idea that some greater power is on their side, that certain THIS time, in THIS case, THEY are right and THEY will triumph.
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby Procne » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:05 pm

What should be done with this "peaceful" religion in the US?
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby TotalyMeow » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:50 pm

Taipion wrote:Or did I overlook something?
Is their any real value they get off this?


Terrorism doesn't always make sense to sane people. As saltmummy said, sometimes individuals are motivated by hatred and/or religious fervor, or some sense of wanting revenge and are willing to die to see how many of the 'enemy' they are willing to take with them. You might just as well ask what benefit people get from committing suicide.

However, there is a method to the madness overall. ISIS is actually very small, as such groups usually are. In an actual military confrontation, they would be wiped out quickly. So, instead, they use guerrilla tactics, attacking targets quickly, doing damage where they can, and getting out again. But it's also much easier for them to attack unarmed and defenseless targets whenever possible, so they use terrorist methods of one person suicide bombing or running a truck through a crowded market. Often they will set up a small bomb or something to cause injuries and distress so that help will be drawn to the area in the form of military or police and then they'll set off a larger bomb in a effort to take out those people. The main purpose of terrorist methods is to create as much chaos, fear, and paranoia as possible. Make people feel unsafe, even in their own homes. That's why stupid small attacks of little actual value are encouraged in places like America, so that even people far removed from the actual conflict will be impacted. The goal of all this is to make these frightened people change their lives, give up their freedom for more security, realize how oppressive that security is, start complaining to their various governments to put an end to the madness, and in the end hopefully give an advantage to ISIS or whatever other group. People in the actual region of ISIS, for example, will join their cause more easily because it means a release at least from the fear of attack, now you're on the winning side. Get enough of that happening and the legit government can be overthrown. In places like American and Europe, the effect might be to prompt people to reason that if our involvement in the conflict on the side of the legit government is causing the terror attacks, that what we should do is just leave ISIS in peace to terrorize it's own people and leave us alone. The idea being that if we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone. It doesn't usually work that way, but it's how people think.
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby Procne » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:03 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:The goal of all this is to make these frightened people change their lives, give up their freedom for more security

What if it ends here, and this
, realize how oppressive that security is, start complaining to their various governments to put an end to the madness

doesn't happen because the government has already turned into dictatorship fueled by propaganda of fear and hatred, and is strong enough to destroy any opposition?
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby TotalyMeow » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:38 pm

Procne wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:The goal of all this is to make these frightened people change their lives, give up their freedom for more security

What if it ends here, and this
, realize how oppressive that security is, start complaining to their various governments to put an end to the madness

doesn't happen because the government has already turned into dictatorship fueled by propaganda of fear and hatred, and is strong enough to destroy any opposition?


Then they still win. How many dictatorships out there try to protect the innocents of other countries?
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby Procne » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:52 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:
Procne wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:The goal of all this is to make these frightened people change their lives, give up their freedom for more security

What if it ends here, and this
, realize how oppressive that security is, start complaining to their various governments to put an end to the madness

doesn't happen because the government has already turned into dictatorship fueled by propaganda of fear and hatred, and is strong enough to destroy any opposition?


Then they still win. How many dictatorships out there try to protect the innocents of other countries?

Sounds more like the dictators are the only winners here.
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby Darwoth » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:34 am

one of the people killed was one of the rioting antifa douchebags pitching a fit since trump got elected about **** like keeping muslims out, can not get much more ironic than that.
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Re: Here we go again - Murica Version

Postby Heffernan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:42 am

Darwoth wrote:one of the people killed was one of the rioting antifa douchebags pitching a fit since trump got elected about **** like keeping muslims out, can not get much more ironic than that.


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