So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby TotalyMeow » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:26 pm

Claeyt wrote:At what point do you guys accept that the Ark was a stupid mechanic. How many times do I have to say it. ONCE DARWOTH HAD VISITED ALL THE STATUES BUT THE ONE HE HAD TOWNBELLED ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS CHECK THE ARK EVERY DAY AND STUDY AT THE LAST STATUE ONCE IT GOT CLOSE TO BEING COMPLETED.


The Ark itself was a pretty good mechanic, actually. Server works together to build a building that everyone but the witches benefit from (and even they benefit as people could have characters on both sides). It can't be destroyed while under construction or after completion so there is little risk in contributing. The fact that the ark didn't get finished had absolutely nothing to do with Darwoth. In my opinion, the two main reasons the ark wasn't finished were an ill-considered post on the part of John, and an overestimation of your ability to work together, even in your own best interests.

As I recall, the timeline of Popham went thusly:

For the first few months, there were quite a large number of players on Popham. The Ark was set up with a calculation for each player present to contribute a small amount to it. Assuming that some players wouldn't bother to contribute or would stop playing before the server ended (at the time, it was assumed to be ending in only in a few months), it was calculated that the average player would contribute only a few hundred items to the ark construction and it should have been ridiculously simple to complete, even with only a few months to work.

Months went by and the ark showed no signs of being built. Some players left the server, leaving the rest to take on more in the ark building. However, even with more to do, a good town can produce thousands of boards in a month's time. One dedicated group of a half dozen or so could have completed the ark at any time and filled it with their own animals.

This is where the first problem comes in. See, in the original concept, the ark was supposed to be siegeable, so that one group could complete it, add their animals, and then hold the ark hostage from all others so that no one else could get animals home and that one group could have initial control of all animals on Providence, except for whatever animals the witch brought home. But we assumed that the group in question would probably also do their best to have the witch as well so it would have been a great competition and hopefully fairly exciting to see who got the animals. And raids to try to break into the ark and add your own animals could have been a thing. I don't know why John changed it in the end to just let the ark be on town land, I guess he wanted it to be easier for you, but I think that was the first mistake as it then required everyone to work together, which I was sure you wouldn't be able to do.

And then the second problem. Around four or so months into the server, John made an ill-considered post that he thought would motivate all of you, but in fact had the opposite effect. He posted something vague about making some very difficult quest in Providence to acquire animals if the ark didn't work out or possibly make them a very expensive pack in the store. He thought people wouldn't want that and would get to work on the Ark, the easy way to get animals, so as to not have to go the more difficult route. However, people like Claeyt latched onto the post, as I told him they would, and decided that a nebulous future mechanic was going to be easier than the current one. They convinced themselves that animals would eventually be just given away on Providence if they whined enough. I think there's a thread from around that time where you can see people convincing themselves of that and becoming entirely confident that the ark didn't need to be built at all but that everyone would get animals anyway.

So, Popham lasted over a year, and it wasn't until something like eight months in that Darwoth even started playing there. He then spent a few months just ***** around, destroying bases, demoralizing people, trying to make as many strong players as possible leave so that he would have less competition. He did it too, he's good at that.

At that point, some people started using Darwoth's presence as an excuse to claim how it's all too difficult and started a new complaint thread about Popham and how everyone deserves to just be given the animals. And this point, Darwoth had begun claiming he had the required witch and that he had only one statue left to get. In fact, he did not have the required witch and only knew where two of the statues were.

Also at this point, I slightly intervened. As a dev, I don't want to get involved too much in player politics. It's a sandbox and I don't want to mess up your dynamic by taking sides. However, I started posting with encouraging posts telling all of you that it was still very possible to complete the ark, that there was still time, that you still had a very good possibility of getting animals. I even posted several strategies outlining how to complete the ark even assuming that Darwoth DID have just one statue left to get.

Eventually, in an effort to move things along, because Darwoth didn't even have the only eligible witch on the server, there were actually several, Marp put a map to the locations of all the statues in the middle of his album of photos from the ***** museum he visited. Several people saw it and I think the picture was posted on the forums shortly thereafter. I know the information of where to find the map was. That was still a few months before the server ended.

So, in the end, there was more than a year worth of time to complete the ark before Darwoth was even close to being able to end the server. After the map was posted, there were several people who could have gotten the jump on him and had their own witch win as he not only had to finish his witch and visit all the statues after the map was posted, but he also delayed for silly reasons of wanting to get ALL the prizes, so that was a big opportunity missed to outpace his witch.

Darwoth's propaganda is awe-inspiring in its effectiveness and people like Claeyt help him a lot by over-inflating his powers and then freaking out about them, causing other people to put more credence in what Darwoth says. And I am sure that that had some effect on the general playerbase's ability to complete either of the server tasks once he had been on Popham for those few months, but to not even have outdone him on any of the minor leaderboard tasks? No no, you don't deserve animals, certainly not free ones. You don't deserve any of the prizes you didn't get. You DO deserve the teabagging you all got from Darwoth, and that goes double for all you who play Chicken Little with your assumptions about him. Jesus Christ, guys, he's just one guy.
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby Nsuidara » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:57 pm

The Ark itself was a pretty good mechanic, actually. Server works together to build a building that everyone but the witches benefit from

i comment only this think... haha nice joke...
The community players is selfish and you wanna force "works together"... look this TOP players... you know what i mean...
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby Nsuidara » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:00 pm

... i'm made mistake // can merge my posts? :/

edit. you made mechanic for win phopan.. who only Darwoth's knwo how work etc.
and you other player force work together...

devs more selfish than players... meybe you should made othery way "win expedition" ... meybe exsist player what not care about be witch...
meybe add more ways for winning ? less or more ?

edit.
Jesus Christ, guys, he's just one guy.

hahaha...
Last edited by Nsuidara on Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby Judaism » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:00 pm

Darwoth does deserves these animals very much, all the secondary prices probably not as they weren't really meant for the victor. They had witch skills in place long ago building up to this moment, it all makes perfect sense.
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby Yes » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:12 pm

I recently logged in to Popham just to check the ark, and well, destroy one of Darwoth's town, cause why not.

And I had the impression that ark was quite easy.

I don't even believe this needs any arguments. People played on Popham for a very short time. So for a fresh base thousands of boards is hard to achieve. But when a town is set up, it's just a matter of grinding. I bet lots of people have built barns on Providence and it's so funny that they stand without use. This time and effort could have been spent to build the ark on popham, raise animals and get some really advanced ones back to providence. And you wouldn't have to spend 500s for a stroganoff, not even know about the new slot adding item, not get a pair of fresh balls, nor be completely unaware of drugs that are made from testicles.

trying to make as many strong players as possible leave so that he would have less competition. He did it too, he's good at that.

Strong players left because there was no one left to pillage.
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby TotalyMeow » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:18 pm

Nsuidara wrote:you made mechanic for win phopan.. who only Darwoth's knwo how work etc.


Nope, he had no more information about anything than anyone else.

Nsuidara wrote:devs more selfish than players... meybe you should made othery way "win expedition" ... meybe exsist player what not care about be witch...
meybe add more ways for winning ? less or more ?


... Building the ark was the way to win the expedition. The witch was supposed to get to destroy the server with some doomsday god abilities and that was all the extra benefit of being the winning witch that we originally intended. Plus later we decided they'd get animals if they hadn't put any on the ark. Anyone who raised animals on Popham was going to get animals on Providence if only the ark had finished. And leaderboard winners got little extra prizes. Are you saying that after over a year of explaining and reexplaining and like a dozen threads on the topic, some of you didn't even know what was going on?
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby Nsuidara » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:26 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:Nope, he had no more information about anything than anyone else.

Stop lie ?
+ he have knowledge about witches (meybe few players)
+ he have knowledge about raids and tricks about this
when other players start leave Phopan because disappointment about ark... he got easy way..
and why all people when i talk.. ideas who win Phopan.. was only one answer ...



TotalyMeow wrote:... Building the ark was the way to win the expedition. The witch was supposed to get to destroy the server with some doomsday god abilities and that was all the extra benefit of being the winning witch that we originally intended. Plus later we decided they'd get animals if they hadn't put any on the ark. Anyone who raised animals on Popham was going to get animals on Providence if only the ark had finished. And leaderboard winners got little extra prizes. Are you saying that after over a year of explaining and reexplaining and like a dozen threads on the topic, some of you didn't even know what was going on?

again creepy talk...
Either defend or come to made mistake...

Only good ways... is made ark like "barn" but more expensive for Towns... not for Server...

and

TotalyMeow wrote:but I think that was the first mistake as it then required everyone to work together, which I was sure you wouldn't be able to do.

and + when JC said "we meybe add animals in store" or something that :P
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby Ghoul » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:54 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:
The Ark itself was a pretty good mechanic, actually. Server works together to build a building that everyone but the witches benefit from (and even they benefit as people could have characters on both sides). It can't be destroyed while under construction or after completion so there is little risk in contributing. The fact that the ark didn't get finished had absolutely nothing to do with Darwoth. In my opinion, the two main reasons the ark wasn't finished were an ill-considered post on the part of John, and an overestimation of your ability to work together, even in your own best interests.

As I recall, the timeline of Popham went thusly:

For the first few months, there were quite a large number of players on Popham. The Ark was set up with a calculation for each player present to contribute a small amount to it. Assuming that some players wouldn't bother to contribute or would stop playing before the server ended (at the time, it was assumed to be ending in only in a few months), it was calculated that the average player would contribute only a few hundred items to the ark construction and it should have been ridiculously simple to complete, even with only a few months to work.

Months went by and the ark showed no signs of being built. Some players left the server, leaving the rest to take on more in the ark building. However, even with more to do, a good town can produce thousands of boards in a month's time. One dedicated group of a half dozen or so could have completed the ark at any time and filled it with their own animals.

This is where the first problem comes in. See, in the original concept, the ark was supposed to be siegeable, so that one group could complete it, add their animals, and then hold the ark hostage from all others so that no one else could get animals home and that one group could have initial control of all animals on Providence, except for whatever animals the witch brought home. But we assumed that the group in question would probably also do their best to have the witch as well so it would have been a great competition and hopefully fairly exciting to see who got the animals. And raids to try to break into the ark and add your own animals could have been a thing. I don't know why John changed it in the end to just let the ark be on town land, I guess he wanted it to be easier for you, but I think that was the first mistake as it then required everyone to work together, which I was sure you wouldn't be able to do.

And then the second problem. Around four or so months into the server, John made an ill-considered post that he thought would motivate all of you, but in fact had the opposite effect. He posted something vague about making some very difficult quest in Providence to acquire animals if the ark didn't work out or possibly make them a very expensive pack in the store. He thought people wouldn't want that and would get to work on the Ark, the easy way to get animals, so as to not have to go the more difficult route. However, people like Claeyt latched onto the post, as I told him they would, and decided that a nebulous future mechanic was going to be easier than the current one. They convinced themselves that animals would eventually be just given away on Providence if they whined enough. I think there's a thread from around that time where you can see people convincing themselves of that and becoming entirely confident that the ark didn't need to be built at all but that everyone would get animals anyway.

So, Popham lasted over a year, and it wasn't until something like eight months in that Darwoth even started playing there. He then spent a few months just ***** around, destroying bases, demoralizing people, trying to make as many strong players as possible leave so that he would have less competition. He did it too, he's good at that.

At that point, some people started using Darwoth's presence as an excuse to claim how it's all too difficult and started a new complaint thread about Popham and how everyone deserves to just be given the animals. And this point, Darwoth had begun claiming he had the required witch and that he had only one statue left to get. In fact, he did not have the required witch and only knew where two of the statues were.

Also at this point, I slightly intervened. As a dev, I don't want to get involved too much in player politics. It's a sandbox and I don't want to mess up your dynamic by taking sides. However, I started posting with encouraging posts telling all of you that it was still very possible to complete the ark, that there was still time, that you still had a very good possibility of getting animals. I even posted several strategies outlining how to complete the ark even assuming that Darwoth DID have just one statue left to get.

Eventually, in an effort to move things along, because Darwoth didn't even have the only eligible witch on the server, there were actually several, Marp put a map to the locations of all the statues in the middle of his album of photos from the ***** museum he visited. Several people saw it and I think the picture was posted on the forums shortly thereafter. I know the information of where to find the map was. That was still a few months before the server ended.

So, in the end, there was more than a year worth of time to complete the ark before Darwoth was even close to being able to end the server. After the map was posted, there were several people who could have gotten the jump on him and had their own witch win as he not only had to finish his witch and visit all the statues after the map was posted, but he also delayed for silly reasons of wanting to get ALL the prizes, so that was a big opportunity missed to outpace his witch.

Darwoth's propaganda is awe-inspiring in its effectiveness and people like Claeyt help him a lot by over-inflating his powers and then freaking out about them, causing other people to put more credence in what Darwoth says. And I am sure that that had some effect on the general playerbase's ability to complete either of the server tasks once he had been on Popham for those few months, but to not even have outdone him on any of the minor leaderboard tasks? No no, you don't deserve animals, certainly not free ones. You don't deserve any of the prizes you didn't get. You DO deserve the teabagging you all got from Darwoth, and that goes double for all you who play Chicken Little with your assumptions about him. Jesus Christ, guys, he's just one guy.


Thanks for painting this picture. I'd like to redact my previous statements. The current situation makes a lot of sense now.
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby Dallane » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:19 pm

Nsuidara wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:Nope, he had no more information about anything than anyone else.

Stop lie ?
+ he have knowledge about witches (meybe few players)
+ he have knowledge about raids and tricks about this
when other players start leave Phopan because disappointment about ark... he got easy way..
and why all people when i talk.. ideas who win Phopan.. was only one answer ...



LOL WHAT? How retarded are you?

So because darwoth played on provi he had a unfair advantage?

Stop making excuses for being a lazy moron.
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Re: So... Dev's, what about those Animals?

Postby Nsuidara » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:29 pm

Dallane wrote:LOL WHAT? How retarded are you?

So because darwoth played on provi he had a unfair advantage?

Stop making excuses for being a lazy moron.

Fish do not speak... i hear pluming near... about my post...
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