Trump's Policies

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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby Claeyt » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:07 am

core1984 wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:14 billion on a wall isn't much compared to the total budget, and I know I don't mind if some of my taxes go to paying for it.


I read on reddit that under the obama adminitration the US debt has risen by 40bil every 12 days, so spending this 14b for the wall seems nothing compeared to the debt obama administration has made

First off, the debt isn't Obama's, it's the refusal of the Republican congress to compromise on anything within the budget. It's both of theirs. The Republicans wouldn't raise taxes on the rich and the Democrats wouldn't gut Social Security or Medicare. Now we'll just gut Medicare and Social Security but still have a massive deficit if Trump's budget goes through according to the Congressional Budget Office.
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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby TotalyMeow » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:18 am

core1984 wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:14 billion on a wall isn't much compared to the total budget, and I know I don't mind if some of my taxes go to paying for it.


I read on reddit that under the obama adminitration the US debt has risen by 40bil every 12 days, so spending this 14b for the wall seems nothing compeared to the debt obama administration has made


Yeah, he doubled our national debt while he was in office, it's terrible what he did to our country.

And speaking of terrible Obama things, I read an article today about Michele Obama's school lunch program and I had no idea how awful it is. When I was in school, the lunches weren't great, but they were edible and sometimes tasty and there was enough to fill you up. What we have now seems to be worse. Some of the pictures included a lunch consisting of a flour tortilla with a sad slice of cheese and an even sadder slice of lunch meat, a lunch consisting of a small fried chicken sandwich of the type you might get for a dollar at a fast food restaurant with a side of half a kiwi, and a lunch consisting of really gross brown mystery goo with apple sauce on the side. And apparently the food is so bad that even with the tiny portions, there is more of it being thrown away than before. It also offers 'free' meals to all children, not just the ones who need financial assistance, but the ones who can well afford to buy their own. But the good news is that the new Congress is already looking in to getting rid of this disgrace as part of the 100 day plan. It cost us about 16 billion dollars last year. Wall money, anyone? :lol: :lol:
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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby Claeyt » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:52 am

TotalyMeow wrote:It is indeed being done in a legal way.

Most of these things are things he can do, actually. Some of them are just him saying "I want this to happen", but he is the president, and he was voted into office because he said he wanted to do these things. Representatives who want to keep their seats will do well to listen to what people want, the things Trump is trying to do, and fund his programs.


All of these things are things he can not do without congressional approval and congressional votes. Congress was also elected just now and they make the budget.

TotalyMeow wrote:14 billion on a wall isn't much compared to the total budget, and I know I don't mind if some of my taxes go to paying for it. Even if no money ever comes from any part of a trade deal with Mexico, I'd much rather pay for a wall than for the incarceration of someone who shouldn't even be here or the welfare of a woman who came here illegally and managed to have a baby here. And it's not likely going to be a big steel wall, this isn't ancient China. The 'wall' might not even be visible as a wall, or might have just a token chain link, but it can still be very effective if it can only tell the border patrol WHEN and WHERE someone crosses it. Seismic sensors, tiny cameras, electromagnetic field sensors, vibration sensors, motion sensors, there's a long list of options that need no actual fence but will still let us stop illegal border crossings.


You're describing the wall we have now. The 14 billion will mostly be spending on tripling the size of the border patrol on the Mexican border. Again this is through the budget and not subject to an executive order. He might as well have signed and sent a note to Paul Ryan that he wants 14 billion more in funding for the border patrol along the Mexican Border. He'll probably get it, but congress has to add it to the budget.

TotalyMeow wrote:The 7 countries thing is not illegal at all, actually. Most of those people aren't coming here under immigration laws but under a refugee quotient ordered by the executive branch which President Trump only needs to reduce back to historic levels. And they aren't being discriminated against by religion, but by nationality, which is a different thing entirely as these are nations which are hostile to us. In fact our immigration laws already quota by country so he isn't changing anything.


No, you are wrong. This affects ANY person traveling from these countries, not refugees or those applying for citizenship. It is debatable if this is legal under the constitution but immigration law is an actual law passed by congress and enforced by the executive. He can not CHOOSE to change it without congress changing it. This will fail in federal court.

TotalyMeow wrote:There's already been an EO signed on the matter of 'sanctuary' cities. It states that funding will be removed for everything except those funds needed for security, and it doesn't mention individual cities but rather states and districts. The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure the funding itself is mostly unconstitutional since the Federal government is only supposed to be administering and funding those things that are necessary for the nation as a whole. States are supposed to handle statewide issues and the cities themselves are meant to handle citywide issues, but the pork has piled on over the years.


The funding of Head Start is budgetary and national. You can not disallow a city from applying for federal funds based on them not voluntarily offering support to federal officers. There is no law that says a city must hold a federal law breaking illegal immigrant. There is a law that funding for things like Head Start or other national funding is not open to any city based on population. This is all through the budget and thus through Congressional law, not the executive.

TotalyMeow wrote:There have also been EOs regarding those pipelines which are really only reversing EOs that Obama created to stop them. And since the environmental impact of the pipelines had already been judged minimal and they had been approved to go ahead and Obama blocked them purely for the hype, he was the one in the wrong. In fact, those pipes are much safer and economical than the alternative, which is transporting the oil by train.


The State department actions against the one is not an EO but can be reversed with a reversal finding by Tillerson which would at least take a month or 2, the Army corps of Engineer denial of 'expedited approval' is not and they are not within the executive power to reverse it and it would also be subject to federal lawsuits over affecting tribal land.

Interestingly, both of them may now be in trouble because of Trump's demands that they be made with American steel piping which is much more expensive and with oil being so low both pipelines might be dead in the water.

TotalyMeow wrote:I'm not sure what you mean about silencing research departments. If you mean departments of the executive branch, I'm pretty sure Trump has the authority to tell them what to do.


One of his first orders was to make all EPA, NASA and all executive branch research funding grant research unavailable to the public and any employees from talking to the press or sharing their research with the public as has been the norm for ever. Of course all of this is available to Freedom of Information requests but who knows if they'll contest them in court.

TotalyMeow wrote:Yeah, he doubled our national debt while he was in office, it's terrible what he did to our country.


Why are you so illiterate when it comes to government. Obama does not create the budget, Congress does. Republicans refused to raise taxes on the wealthy, Obama refused to gut Medicare and Social Security. The Republicans shut the government down over it. They passed the automatic defense cuts over it. It was both of them.

As for the real reason for the rise in the deficit look to Bush's unfunded wars. Trillions of what you're quoting is the result of an unfunded invasion of Afganistan and Iraq which rolled into the deficit with Trillions of dollars that was never budgeted for.

TotalyMeow wrote:Some of the pictures included a lunch consisting of a flour tortilla with a sad slice of cheese and an even sadder slice of lunch meat


As for the Lunch Program, you are dead wrong. Some schools feed their kids garbage, most schools have doubled their portions of veggies and fruits under her plan. There is very little federal oversight of this as it is funneled through state government and of course the cheapest state governments have the worst lunches.
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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby Dallane » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:18 pm

TotalyMeow wrote:And speaking of terrible Obama things, I read an article today about Michele Obama's school lunch program and I had no idea how awful it is. When I was in school, the lunches weren't great, but they were edible and sometimes tasty and there was enough to fill you up. What we have now seems to be worse. Some of the pictures included a lunch consisting of a flour tortilla with a sad slice of cheese and an even sadder slice of lunch meat, a lunch consisting of a small fried chicken sandwich of the type you might get for a dollar at a fast food restaurant with a side of half a kiwi, and a lunch consisting of really gross brown mystery goo with apple sauce on the side. And apparently the food is so bad that even with the tiny portions, there is more of it being thrown away than before. It also offers 'free' meals to all children, not just the ones who need financial assistance, but the ones who can well afford to buy their own. But the good news is that the new Congress is already looking in to getting rid of this disgrace as part of the 100 day plan. It cost us about 16 billion dollars last year. Wall money, anyone? :lol: :lol:


omg you have no idea how terrible michele ***** up the school system. I pray our kids can get normal lunches again, remove no child left behind and destroy standardized testing. A couple of my friends who are teachers say that the kids are actually talking and praying for good food again.

Trump got more people exercising in 6 days than michele did in 8. #winning

I also love how clay writes so much ***** that no one reads till meow destroys his feeble liberal mind.
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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby Darwoth » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:29 pm

yeah, i do not even bother reading claeyts crap anymore, everytime i try i get about 2 sentences in before i see something that is so retardedly false and easily countered i do not bother wasting my time. he always gets obliterated in the argument then ignores that and skips to the next talking point he found on some commie website, again gets owned then circles back to the original series of statements barely acknowledging the previous replies except to stick his head further up his ass and repeat himself again.

i suspect everyone on the forum and in the game by now knows that claeyt lives in a fantasy land where he believes that if he repeats the same falsehoods enough they will magically come true and pays him no mind.
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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby TotalyMeow » Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:44 pm

Dallane wrote:omg you have no idea how terrible michele ***** up the school system. I pray our kids can get normal lunches again, remove no child left behind and destroy standardized testing. A couple of my friends who are teachers say that the kids are actually talking and praying for good food again.

Trump got more people exercising in 6 days than michele did in 8. #winning

I also love how clay writes so much ***** that no one reads till meow destroys his feeble liberal mind.


Yeah, when I was searching for it yesterday to find out more I found article after article about how awful the lunches are and how nearly impossible to fulfill the regulations on the food are and how billions of dollars have been wasted so far and the whole program is pretty much universally reviled, and Claeyt's response is that the program is awesome. I'd like to see him eat that crap.

I like Claeyt's posts for giving me direction to research things I might not know as much about as I would like to. But it is exhausting when he scatter shots like he is today with 7 or 8 different subjects all in the same post and some of them about stuff we've already talked about, like immigration. He tried this immigration law lie a few months ago and I debunked it yet he still comes back with it. I also spent 3 weeks going over the budget a while back for my own edification (and did post it here for the curious) and I clearly saw Obama's horrifying effect on it.

In fact all Claeyt ever brings are lies, half-truths, made up 'statistics' and supposed facts that he actually just pulled out of his ass 3 minutes ago. It's the standard liberal tactic to create a 'narrative' in much the same way reality tv takes real footage and makes a fictional yet entertaining story out of it. Conservatives on the other hand try to educate with facts and it doesn't work when people don't care about facts. I think that's a big reason why Trump got elected. All his years as a reality tv star made him good at understanding these narratives and how to counter them with better narratives, not just the actual facts.
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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby jesi » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:04 pm

TotalyMeow wrote: Yeah, when I was searching for it yesterday to find out more I found article after article about how awful the lunches are and how nearly impossible to fulfill the regulations on the food are and how billions of dollars have been wasted so far and the whole program is pretty much universally reviled, . . .


I'm not exactly sure what the "it" is you were searching for. But in a continuing effort to help some of the overseas forum users to understand what is happening in the US, here is a link to the USDA webpage on the school lunch program which includes information on the USDA standards.

https://www.fns.usda.gov/school-meals/n ... hool-meals
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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby Paradoxyc » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:45 pm

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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby Claeyt » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:51 pm

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Re: Trump's Policies

Postby TotalyMeow » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:43 pm

jesi wrote:I'm not exactly sure what the "it" is you were searching for. But in a continuing effort to help some of the overseas forum users to understand what is happening in the US, here is a link to the USDA webpage on the school lunch program which includes information on the USDA standards.

https://www.fns.usda.gov/school-meals/n ... hool-meals


We were discussing Michele Obama's school lunch program, and I was searching for people's opinions on it. Then I summed up what I had found.

Your link means little to me as I have absolutely no faith in the US government's ability to delineate a healthy diet. Those policies on supposedly healthy foods have not only lead directly to the skyrocketed heart disease and obesity rates in this country, but have given three entire generations of Americans false information about what a healthy diet looks like. The guidelines were originally founded on dubious and/or non-existent studies and numerous, more scientific, studies have been showing how wrong they are for a few decades now. I could write an entire text wall on the sorry history of it, but it's outside the scope of this thread.

Claeyt wrote:
TotalyMeow wrote:There's already been an EO signed on the matter of 'sanctuary' cities. It states that funding will be removed for everything except those funds needed for security, and it doesn't mention individual cities but rather states and districts. The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure the funding itself is mostly unconstitutional since the Federal government is only supposed to be administering and funding those things that are necessary for the nation as a whole. States are supposed to handle statewide issues and the cities themselves are meant to handle citywide issues, but the pork has piled on over the years.


The funding of Head Start is budgetary and national. You can not disallow a city from applying for federal funds based on them not voluntarily offering support to federal officers. There is no law that says a city must hold a federal law breaking illegal immigrant. There is a law that funding for things like Head Start or other national funding is not open to any city based on population. This is all through the budget and thus through Congressional law, not the executive.


Your entire post was nonsense, but I don't want to text-wall too big so I'll pick the one that I found most interesting personally, the EO to halt federal funding of sanctuary cities. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Head Start specifically, as if it's special, but let's see what the EO says and what the President and Congress have power over.

First, the EO is right here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... ior-united

It states that the policy of the Executive Branch is that our National immigration laws (existing laws, mind you) be enforced. That the president has power to enforce law and elected officials have responsibility to comply under Article II Section 3 of the Constitution along with section 3331 of title 5 of the US Code.

That the president will do all in his power to see those laws enforced and to punish those states and cities that won't comply by removing what federal funding he can, funds not mandated by law. Now, as I understand it, the president is very limited in what funds he can personally deny, those mostly being National Security funding and similar. However, congress has control over the budget, and as it has been made fairly clear that the majority of the American people desire this immigration reform; they will do well to aid President Trump in his endeavor if they want to be reelected by the Citizens of the US, the people they work for. So, the support of a president ready to sign into law the measures Congress comes up with will probably see these measures put into effect.

Now, the illegal immigrants this EO seeks to remove are the following:

Sec. 5. Enforcement Priorities. In executing faithfully the immigration laws of the United States, the Secretary of Homeland Security (Secretary) shall prioritize for removal those aliens described by the Congress in sections 212(a)(2), (a)(3), and (a)(6)(C), 235, and 237(a)(2) and (4) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(2), (a)(3), and (a)(6)(C), 1225, and 1227(a)(2) and (4)), as well as removable aliens who:

(a) Have been convicted of any criminal offense;

(b) Have been charged with any criminal offense, where such charge has not been resolved;

(c) Have committed acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense;

(d) Have engaged in fraud or willful misrepresentation in connection with any official matter or application before a governmental agency;

(e) Have abused any program related to receipt of public benefits;

(f) Are subject to a final order of removal, but who have not complied with their legal obligation to depart the United States; or

(g) In the judgment of an immigration officer, otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security.


The noted sections of INA and the USC involve those who have committed crimes such as drug trafficking or terrorist activity, those intercepted at the border as they arrive, anyone who committed a felony while here, failed to register as a sex offender, engaged in gun trafficking, or engaged in espionage. These are people we clearly don't want here.

And here is the entire INA, if you want to look anything up: https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB ... B/act.html
And here are the relevant section 8 parts of the US Code: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-20 ... ec1182.htm
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-20 ... ec1182.htm
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/USCOD ... etail.html

And what specific law is the EO seeking to enforce? This one: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-20 ... ec1373.pdf

Section 1373, which is actually very short. It says that a local government agency cannot be restricted from sending information about the immigration status of a detained person to INS or receiving said information from them. That they can't be prevented from sharing said information with other government agencies or keeping said records on hand. That the INS is required to respond to questions regarding the verification of immigrant status from any other government agency.

Basically, it's saying that other government agencies should cooperate with INS and each other to distribute information about immigrants, legal or otherwise, so that they can be kept tabs on. The so-called 'sanctuary' districts have been denying that cooperation, effectively making the job of INS orders of magnitude more difficult.

Other research I have done says that it is within the law for the INS to request a detained illegal to be kept until they can arrive, but they can't command it. However, the local authorities must cooperate in giving information such as last known whereabouts to INS to aid in their efforts to capture said illegal immigrant.

There are also provisions for providing aid to people and families of people harmed by illegal immigrants. And provisions for deporting illegals currently held in our own prisons.

All this involves those illegal immigrants who are criminals beyond the act of coming here illegally. I really don't see how you can condone those cities who claim they will fight this. Like that idiot who says they can come stay in the courthouse and be housed in the various offices. We're talking felons, spys, drug and gun traffickers, sex offenders, and terrorists... being welcomed into a center of government. It shouldn't even be a question of needing to halt federal funding in punishment, they need to stop this idiotic narrative of the evil federal government and the innocent lamb-like 'undocumented immigrants' and do their damn jobs.
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