The Trump / Russia Controversy

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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Dallane » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:59 am

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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Lazun123 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:48 am

Claeyt wrote:For the record I don't believe Putin and Trump coordinated a Sarin gas attack followed up by a Tomahawk missile strike. I think it's much, much more likely that 1 of 2 scenarios happened.

These are in descending order of likelihood in my opinion and reasoning.

The first Scenario is that it's most probably that the attack was some independent Syrian Commander that may have secretly stashed away a small amount of Sarin and used it on a hardened Syrian position. That commander may or may not have had permission from Assad, who knows. If it did come from an air attack from that airbase then he probably did have permission from Assad. Which leads us to scenario 2.

The second Scenario is if Assad had no permission to launch a chemical attack from Putin. It seemed like the Russians were taken by surprise this week by the chemical attack as much as anyone. I think that if the commander got permission from Assad and if Assad didn't get permission from Putin then this was Assad testing Trump and testing the west as to if he could us chemical weapons to more quickly end the war because right now it seems like he may not be able to end the war entirely.

The 3rd scenario is that Putin planned this, told Assad to use Sarin in a small chemical attack to test the new American President (while of course not telling him anything else) and told Trump (or Jared more likely) via some hidden contact to launch a limited missile strike on the Syrian base where the chemical attack came from so as to throw off the growing Russia/Trump connection. I think this is the least likely scenario.

I am not a big believer in conspiracy theories.

I don't believe there was anyone else that helped kill Kennedy. I don't believe that 9/11 was planned by Bush and Cheney. I don't believe a lot of these things because of one simple reason:

Someone always talks. The larger the conspiracy the more people involved and the more people that might talk. With Kennedy that would mean that tens of people might have known if the CIA was actually involved and were willing to kill the president. With 9/11 it would mean as many as 100 people would have known and were willing to kill thousands of Americans to advance Bush's presidency and wars. Both of these seem so much more unlikely to me than a lone shooter with good aim and a weird inter body ricochet AND a crazed group of extremists who went through a few months of flight training.

With Trump. I think the first 2 "Syrian Only" scenarios are more likely but the 3rd one should not be ruled out. At least 5-6 people would have known. Putin, Putin's intelligence chief, the contact, the person who got the info from the contact and was able to get past the secret service protection of Jared without much notice (possibly Prince, possibly someone else) and lastly Jared who would have brought it to Trump or possibly influenced Trump to a limited attack. All of this of course would be under the possible surveillance of the FBI/CIA/NSA counter intelligence investigation. Not likely but not impossible.

There is also a 4th scenario after that. It's also possible that one of the 2 "Syrian Only" scenarios were serendipitously used by Jared and Trump as an excuse to unilaterally distance themselves from the Russian Scandal without Russian knowledge.

There is also a 5th scenario that Russia and Trump coordinated to get him elected, still maintain pro-Russian goals and the goal of an end to sanctions but have since not had contact since Prince's Secret Sechelles meeting. This scenario means that Trump may have felt forced to attack Syria because of the chemical weapons with no direction from Moscow and surprised Russia only a bit while falling ass backwards into deflecting the Russian Scandal.

__________________________________________________________________________

All of this is based on the conspiracy theory of Trump somehow being connected to Russia helping him win the election and this leads us down the road to even more scenarios based on likelihood and reasoning.

Jared is increasingly being viewed at the center of the Russian connection. He had deep money contacts in Russia going back to his father's contacts. He lied about them repeatedly. He was the one who brought in Manafort and possibly Page. The following article is based on leaked memos on how Manafort came to the Trump campaign and into Trump's life through Jared and Jared's father.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... ump-report

Jared is also the one who worked with Prince. Who knows about Stone. Anyways IF this IS true, it would most likely have gone through Jared and again even this conspiracy theory I blanch at. I think this may be as simple as a former Russian Intelligence officer calling up Manafort in June and telling him "We hacked the DNC emails and are releasing them through Wikileaks next Tuesday to help you guys" and Manafort then may have passed it up to Jared and Jared passed it up to Trump by saying something like "there's a rumor that the DNC got hacked and it's going to be leaked". Then maybe Carter Page was used to get a bit more info on what the Russians had done. Who knows. That's the simple scenario. No collusion, no coordination, just Russia telling Manafort we hacked them, get ready.

The complex scenario for this is the Steele Russia/Trump dossier with money being payed, collusion and blackmail. This would mean Russians dying, Trump aides lying and endless investigations by the FBI, Congress and the CIA.

_____________________________________________________________________

The MSM is actually starting to pick this up as either a conspiracy between Trump and Putin to change the subject or as a 'Wag the Dog' scenario by Trump himself. MSNBC has had 2 hosts go full conspiracy on it. CNN has had a few questions about it. Newsweek wrote about it.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watc ... 6753987666

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 72256.html

http://www.newsweek.com/did-trump-attac ... ory-580754

Several liberal Democratic congressmen have also put forward the theory:

http://shareblue.com/rep-ted-lieu-on-sy ... ct-people/

Interestingly good chunks of Trump's base are also calling it a conspiracy. Mostly from a different viewpoint not having to do with Trump's connections to Russia. Yet..

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world ... ria-strike

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity ... protest-of

I guess we shall see as the Russia hearings and FBI counter intelligence investigations will continue.

Meanwhile the airbase Trump struck to deter Syria is back in Action and is already being used to bomb the rebels:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ws-unclear

:lol: :lol: :lol: :( :( :(

____________________________________________________________

AcidSpiral wrote:Claeyt he didn't "secretly" contact the Russians beforehand. If you read your own articles you would be enlightened enough to know it is public knowledge that the defence council forewarned the Russians because they had military personnel there.

For once can you start posting about facts and not ignorant assumptions you make based on a bold headline without even reading?


I stated right in the front that the State Department (not the "defence council" nor Trump personally apparently) contacted the Russians a few hours before the attack because of the conflict zone agreement. The Russians ended the conflict zone agreement the next day.


TL:DR all of it

But i have to agree on him on a few of these senerios and if you get past the Clayness, they do make sense.

Tbh though i believe more that it is our own intelligence agency going rouge or in the pockets of some rich elites.

The reason i believe this is the front runner for the democratic party (who was supposed to win) hinted at a conflict with Syria, through more aggressive actions in the region, so one party is on board with the war. The Democratic party, and i say this as a independent and completely impartial and unbiased, is the most corrupt out of the two parties. The 2nd is the intelligence agency, who is known and has a track record for causing some real international harm, rouge like behavior and working for private interests more so than the welfare of the country, which is flooding our media for months now on this BS love relation with Russia and Trump WHILE PROVIDING ZERO TANGIBLE EVIDENCE. Which is causing a greater feud between Americans and Russia.

So you have three power houses, Intelligence community, democratic party and the media all pushing (from what i see) for a war with Russia and anti-Russia narrative. We will beat Russia, no doubt, the rich will get richer and the poor common folks will die under an illusion of preserving freedom.

So my vote to who did the attack in syria is the CIA.
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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Lazun123 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:53 am

Claeyt wrote:
Chrumps wrote:Dude, I was not talking about any investigation but about money flow. Meh.


Forungi wrote:Clinton is protected by the corporate state, ofcourse there was "nothing" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


The Washington Post just came out with a great article on how extreme right wing personalities have been profiting off your gullibility Chrumps, Dallane and Forungi. It basically explains exactly why you think the Clinton Foundation was some nefarious plot and where it came from.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... ge%2Fstory

From the Article: "It had the hallmarks of a Bannon production. Fast-cut editing. Ominous music."

Sound similar? You see this **** on YouTube constantly linked from Right Wing sites. There's like 100 of these companies that take money from right wing politicians or wall street as a non-profit. Of course wall street and the right wing money guys can write it off their taxes. Then they make the movie and pay the producer (Bannon, Hannity) an obscene amount so that the movie and non-profit make no money. Then the producer, in this case Bannon, plugs it over and over on his right wing radio show and links it on his right wing blog or "News" outlet like Bannon did with Brietbart.

...and you all fell for it. You clicked on it via facebook, Brietbart, YouTube or some other source and fell for their lie that it was an independent documentary. You are their shills. You are the ones they get to click on their sites or listen to their shows so that you hear their dumb advertisements for "Buying Gold" or other nonsense right wing advertisements. And of course then there were the Republican political commercials they got you to watch or listen to. You got duped.

You are THEIR PRODUCT when they sold your viewing and listening to advertisers. You are THEIR MARKET every time you bought their hat or tuned into their "News". Finally, and maybe most importantly you are THEIR FREE ADVERTISING every time you linked their product to someone else, to your facebook feed or to a forum like this.

Personally I don't care if you did all this. Neo-Nazi groups, The NRA and the Klan have been doing this cycle marketing on their sites and "festivals" for years. The difference is this has mainstreamed and you think that their products are FACTS when they are not.

It is not a fact that the Clinton Foundation is illegal in any way. It has never been sued, been charged or been in front of judge in a trial, while Trump's foundation has had all 3.

You are being told that these are FACTS when in actuality they are garbage simply to bend your mind to their view and make a few bucks of it.

They use multiple branded companies to make you think that they are "reporting" on someone else's journalism when in reality it's actually their own product or someone else's product who's actually paying them for coverage. Bannon used multiple production companies, Brietbart, his radio show and even a fake "documentary" team to CREATE fake news about the Clinton's. None of it was real. Bannon is just one complicated example of these people feeding you these lies about Democrats over the last 10 years simply to make money off advertising. Hannity's another one that echo's his own product on Fox and his radio show into you and others thinking it's "real" independent journalism. Think of O'reilly hawking his awful horribly ghost-written books that he spews out every 3 months. This is how it works. They are selling you a product and you don't even understand that they're just making it up and it's not real.

They are lying to you and targeting right wing media as their outlet simply to make money off this. None of it was ever true.

You guys have been conned by their idealism which has no basis in fact and their attempts to make a profit off firing up the Republican base.

You guys bought the hat, the hook, the line and the sinker and bit right into it.

...and years later you quote me nonsense "facts" about the Clinton Foundation that was never true except in your mind and their pocket.


I dont want to jump on the ***** clayet band wagon bud but honestly, shorten your **** up man, you can get the message across w/o making a blanket of text.

Also WP, NY Times and others are extreme left wing, i believe it would help your argument more if you would use sources from independent journalists or sources that a room full of pro-republicans would view as credible, not leftist propagandists . Just my 2 cents....
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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby TotalyMeow » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:57 am

Claeyt uses extreme left-wing propaganda as 'proof' that there is propaganda on the right and sees absolutely no irony in this.
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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Dallane » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:53 am

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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Claeyt » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:12 am

The AP and McCain are reporting from CIA sources that the Russians knew the Chemical attack was going to happen before the attack. Although not conclusive, at least publicly, this would eliminate Scenario 1 and Scenario 2 from my list and leave us with the more complicated and dangerous Scenarios that I discussed above.

https://apnews.com/19772be1238e49fbb62c ... cal-attack

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html
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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Dallane » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:22 am

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TotalyMeow wrote: Claeyt's perspective of Salem and what it's about is very different from the devs and in many cases is completely the opposite of what we believe.
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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Claeyt » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:23 am

Meanwhile, back in the investigation:

The Washington Post has confirmed through FBI sources that there is an open FISA warrant against Carter Page since last summer based on evidence they have that he was possibly working as a foreign agent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

From the article:

"The government’s application for the surveillance order targeting Page included a lengthy declaration that laid out investigators’ basis for believing that Page was an agent of the Russian government and knowingly engaged in clandestine intelligence activities on behalf of Moscow, officials said."

The FISA warrants has been renewed at least 2 times since July.

This means that the FBI has been monitoring a direct line of contact between Putin to Igor Sechin (Rosneft) who met Page on several occasions including the infamous meeting from the Dossier in July of 2016 where he supposedly sent by Manafort who was brought on the campaign by Kuschner.

Putin to Sechin to Page to Manafort to Kuschner and then possibly into Trump's ear. The DNC hacks were released days after this meeting took place and Trump and Kuschner knew they were coming out through this line of contact.

Boom

___________________________________________

Also:

The full intelligence committee has now seen the full intelligence that Nunes was hiding now that he's no longer the head of the committee. Both GOP and DEM sources on the committee are saying that the documents show nothing wrong with Rice actions to unmask redacted intel contrary to the narrative Nunes was pushing. A GOP's aide on the intel committee is sourced as saying that in fact it directly contradicts Nunes's statements over the last weeks.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/politics/ ... index.html

btw Nunes was on the Trump transition team.
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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Dallane » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:06 am

This confirms all of my suspicions about unjustified, politically motivated government surveillance,” Page said in an interview Tuesday. “I have nothing to hide.” He compared surveillance of him to the eavesdropping that the FBI and Justice Department conducted against civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr.


Will be interesting to see what happens.

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Re: Our new President is a piss soaked Russian double agent

Postby Claeyt » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:28 pm

The Ukrainian 'Black Ledger' showing illegal payments to Paul Manafort has just been confirmed by the Associated Press.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-recor ... ide-2017-4

After denying for 7 months that he was connected to the 'Black Ledger' accounts he is now saying that he was payed through his employers preferred method. The method included corruption and money laundering out of Ukraine.

Paul Manafort was forced to quit the Trump campaign when the 'Black Ledger' was revealed back in August of 2016. Paul Manafort has denied for 7 months now that he was connected to the Ledger, corruption in Ukraine or to money laundered secret payments from Russia through Ukraine then to shell corporation accounts in Cyprus and Belize and finally on to Paul Manafort's shell corporate accounts in the Caribbean or legitimate U.S. accounts.

This long money trail has now been confirmed by the A.P.

So what did he actually do that was illegal:

1. He lied about receiving the payments to the IRS.
2. He may have lied to the FBI about the payments as his foreign business interests were part of the FBI counter-intelligence investigation.
3. Records showing the exact path of the money from the Pro-Russian Ukrainian political party to Paul Manafort's U.S. accounts through Belize showed that he was complicit in the money laundering operation that is currently the focus of a nationwide Ukrainian corruption investigation.
4. He lied to the federal government about first being a payed foreign agent and then lied about he payments on his belated application stating he was a foreign agent.

What this shows is that he is going to be arrested. Along with the FISA warrant news on Carter Page showing probable cause for arrest of him this now means that at least 2 (maybe 3 if you include Flynn's foreign agent filing and lying about payments he received from Russia to the Army) of Trump's campaign staff are probably going to be arrested.
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